JPM, HSBC Sued For Silver Market Manipulation, Reaping Billions In Illegal Profits

Tyler Durden's picture Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/27/2010 18:05 -0500

Commodity Futures Trading CommissionMarket ManipulationNYMEXPrecious Metals

Yesterday’s announcement by CFTC commissioner Bart Chilton that he was fully aware of fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control silver prices may have been the straw that broke the gold and silver price manipulating camel’s back on precious metal manipulation. Today, Brian Beatty and Peter Laskaris (Southern District Court of New York, cases 10-08146, and 10-01857) sued the two firms at the very top of the precious metal manipulation pyramid: JPMorgan and HSBC. The lawsuit, which seeks class action status, alleges that “between in or about March 2008 and continuing through the present, Defendants have combined, conspired and agreed to restrain trade in, fix, and manipulate prices of silver futures and options contracts traded in this District on the COMEX division of the NYMEX. Defendants thereby have violated Section 1 of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C ¶1. Also during the Class Period, individual Defendants have intentionally acted to manipulate prices of COMEX silver futures and options contracts. Such conduct violates Section 9(a) of the Commodity Exchange Act, 7 U.S.C. ¶13b.” And so, the tidal wave of lawsuits by all those who may have ever lost money trading precious metals against JPM et al begins.

The lawsuit alleges that the means by which JPM and HSBC manipulated the market is as follows:

Defendants have effected their foregoing restraint of trade and manipulation through diverse means. These means themselves include lawful and unlawful acts.Defendants have held large positions in silver futures and silver options.Defendant have held a concentrated and substantial amount of the open interest in silver futures contractsDefendants have made large trades at key times.Defendants or others have made large “spoof” orders which appeared on the trading screens; “spoofing” is the submission of a large order which is not executed but influences prices and is then withdrawn before it reasonably can be executed.Defendants have communicated with and/or signalled one another their trades.

In the suit, the plaintiff allege that JPM and HSBC in August 2008 held 85% of the net short position in silver and by the first quarter 2009 held $7.9 billion in precious metal derivatives.

Some amusing observations from the plaintiffs:

Prior to public complains and the government investigation of manipulation of COMEX silver futures prices that began in March 2010, silver prices greatly underperformed gold prices. Since the government investigation began, silver prices have greatly outperformed gold prices.

This “price signature” is precisely consistent with what would be expected of very reputable firms (like the JP Morgan Group Defendants and the HSBC Group Defendants) when their unlawful activities are threatened by government investigations and possible exposure, and compliance intercedes.

Laskaris and Beatty further allege that Defendants reaped hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in profits from the conspiracy.

Damages sought by plaintiffs include damages that may be tripled, and various other remedies.

In the meantime, as this lawsuit seeks class status, we are confident many readers will enjoin the plaintiffs. Especially since, as is suddenly all too well known, the CFTC’s bias to perpetually rule in favor of the commission has been exposed for all to see. Will the be the watershed case that finds two of the biggest market manipulators finally guilty?

Oh, and, with one more “conspiracy theory” about to be proven for fact, can the tin foil hat be taken off now?

Full filing:

 

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by TheGreatPonzi
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:12
#681819

As I said, those investors don’t know who they are attacking. The case will be rejected by all courts on the US territory. Attacking the gold/silver cartel is attacking extremely powerful interests, including Rothschild’s ones (http://goldfixing.com)

Login or register to post comments by malusDiaz
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:16
#681835

Who will be on the Front lines of war?

 

Support those brothers & sisters who are willing to fight against tyranny! 

 

Some day you WILL die.

Login or register to post comments by TheGreatPonzi
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:28
#681861

I do support them, but don’t forget that the whole US system is crooked, including the courts. If this complaint leads to JPM and HSBC conviction, then it would be fantastic. This case will be a test of the honesty of the US justice.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:40
#681894

This particular action is a civil case, so there definitely won’t be any criminal conviction.  We’ll see about award or, more likely regardless of merits, a settlement between plaintiffs and banks.  

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:30
#682356

The thread hereby puts out an Urgent Message to Sr. VP at JPM JonNadler!

Jamie D must be up late tonight very worried, use that confidential phone number he gave you…

Told you not to fire Johnny Bravo!

Login or register to post comments by Rick64
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:36
#682017

Commodity Futures Trading Commission judge says colleague biased against complainants

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/19/AR2010101907216.html?sub=AR

Login or register to post comments by zaknick
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:58
#682189

Justice? What effing justice??  What a farce.

 

http://twitpic.com/31gew6

 

Rodney Stich

Drugging America: A Trojan Horse

 

Login or register to post comments by LoneStarHog
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:26
#681856

I guess you didn’t get the memo several YEARS ago (circa 2006) that The House of Rothschild is completely OUT of the precious metal’s business.

Login or register to post comments by TheGreatPonzi
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:32
#681876

Muhahahaha. Do you really believe that?

PS: Rothschild is not a company, it is a family. And even if this family doesn’t intervene directly in the markets, it doesn’t mean her interests have faded away.

Login or register to post comments by LoneStarHog
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:57
#681938

They are known as The House of Rothschild.  Yes, they exited the market in 2006.  That is not to say that they own no physical metals.

Login or register to post comments by Rahm
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:50
#682394

April 14, 2004, but who’s counting 😉

 

http://www.thebulliondesk.com/content/reports/press/pa.pdf

 

Login or register to post comments by Habspurg
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:23
#682693

Lord Jacob Rothschild, 4th Baron Rothschild, is on the board of BullionVault.

Login or register to post comments by weinerdog43
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:43
#682035

Ha!  +1 for “The __________” movie reference.  Well done.

Login or register to post comments by breezer1
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:42
#682036

the rothschilds were buying gold according to a telegraph article several months ago.

Login or register to post comments by tallystick
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:52
#682175

Rothchild is long gold according to this CNBC interview.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEQQtwIwAA&url=http%…

Login or register to post comments by breezer1
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:45
#682042

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/06/22/lord-rothschild-fund-invests-125-million-into-bullionvault/

Login or register to post comments by tmosley
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:52
#682061

The key difference is that now they are long, rather than short.

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:17
#682329

I am happy to walk in the footsteps of Giants as an owner of gold. (“FOFOA-speak”)

Login or register to post comments by Arius
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:00
#681947

if you noticed Rothchild got out of London pool in 2004…someone else got to hold the bag…but you know where this train is going….it is NOT west doesnt matter what they tell you….

Login or register to post comments by High Plains Drifter
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:21
#682222

The question is , just who is holding the gold plated tungsten bars? Hmmm, that is the question. I bet we have a lot of them in Ft. Knox because we have been such good clients.

Login or register to post comments by Unlawful Justice
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:23
#681975

Nothings changed to make me think other wise.

There has to be some self-preservation motive to see any change.

Their all in this together, but i think there shit’n their pants.

Fear of truth/reality is an uncontrollable emotion.

Login or register to post comments by Nostradumbass
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:40
#682028

There;

Their;

They’re;

It is not a spelling issue.

Login or register to post comments by Milestones
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:12
#682320

Correct!! Retired English teacher??      Milestones

Login or register to post comments by Al Gorerhythm
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 01:30
#682612

No, just another witness to the end result of the public school system.

Login or register to post comments by Brutlstrudl
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:30
#682002

At days end, the silver has to be in the warehouse. case closed

Login or register to post comments by boooyaaaah
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:42
#682034

If the precious metal market is manipulated —- then gold bug pumpers — are accomplices or accessories to the crime.

I wonder if the fed and the treasury are in cahoots with JPM —- maybe they are going to teach the unwashed how the game of commodities is played

 

 

At law, an accomplice is a person who actively participates in the commission of a crime, even though they take no part in the actual criminal offense. For example, in a bank robbery, the person who points the gun at the teller and asks for the money is guilty of armed robbery. However, anyone else directly involved in the commission of the crime, such as the lookout or the getaway car driver, is an accomplice, even though in the absence of an underlying offense keeping a lookout or driving a car would not be an offense.

An accomplice differs from an accessory in that an accomplice is present at the actual crime, and could be prosecuted even if the main criminal (the principal) is not charged or convicted. An accessory is generally not present at the actual crime, and may be subject to lesser penalties than an accomplice or principal.

Login or register to post comments by chopper read
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:27
#682125

GOLD INFO FROM GARTMAN LETTER TODAY:

China now holds just a bit more than 1000 tonnes of gold in reserve and that the US holds just a bit more than 8100 tonnes, Meng said

 

Doubtless if the Yuan is to become an international currency like the dollar or the EUR, China has to get a huge gold reserve to support it and a reserve of 1054 tonnes is far from being enough.

 

The article went on to note that China needs only to use one tenth of its current dollar holdings in reserve to bring its gold holdings to parity with the US even with gold at $1300/ounce. We note also that Ms. Yi Gang, the head of SAFE (the rather aptly named State Administration for Foreign Currency), said earlier this month that China could add gold to its reserve position but would do so only “prudently,” rather  than aggressively. Nonetheless, Mr. Meng’s article shall raise gold’s profile all things being otherwise equal.

 

Login or register to post comments by High Plains Drifter
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:22
#682223

I wonder how many of those gold bullion bars they have drilled holes in?

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:34
#682448

To what purpose?  Transmogrifying them into sponges to sop up “excess liquidity?”

Login or register to post comments by dark pools of soros
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:10
#682679

“become an international currency like the dollar or the EUR, China has to get a huge gold reserve to support it”

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Login or register to post comments by 66Sexy
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:58
#682498

yup we should all bend our knees and confess rothchild is lord of all.

Login or register to post comments by Troy Ounce
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 01:58
#682631

 

This attack of the investors goes to the heart of the confidence game of the Ponzi system.

Note that you, I, judges, Congress men, bankers, business men and women i.e. all of us, have reaped the benefits of the Big Ponzi by buying cars, houses, holidays, etc. Actually, we had fun, didn’t we?

Now, after 40 years of cheap money, La-la-land will come to an end and an adjustment of 80-90% MUST come. Our only problem is we don’t know when.

Our esteemed investors are fighting the last ray of hope that the wealth of our society is not imaginary, but real. They are attacking all of us.

But let’s get it over with. Burn it down and have a fresh start.

 

 

Login or register to post comments by AGORACOM
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:13
#681820

Short $JPM, long SLV

It is getting harder and harder for Wall Street / Elite manipulators to fight the masses who have had enough.  If you hate lawyers, this is the time to love them.  From mortgages to silver, they are going to lead the fight.

Only a matter of time before GATA / Ron Paul and others are proven right with respect to gold market manipulation.

Regards,

George … The Greek …. From Canada

Login or register to post comments by Minion
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:13
#681828

Been short since the explosion to the downside last week.  🙂

Login or register to post comments by tip e. canoe
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:55
#681934

pssssst, George, SLV is JPM.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/149209-are-gld-and-slv-legitimate-invest…

Login or register to post comments by Bendromeda Strain
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:37
#682020

And GLD is HSBC, ergo…

Login or register to post comments by boooyaaaah
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:51
#682059

Maybe George already knows that

Maybe George is a salesman working for JPM

When JPM pulls out the rug then George will be rich

Login or register to post comments by JLee2027
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:20
#682117

Avoid SLV, get physical silver only.

Login or register to post comments by Rahm
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:55
#682400

Physical is money, and nothing else!

Login or register to post comments by XitSam
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:02
#681937

The lawyers are not doing this because they are pure of heart.  They are doing it for their cut of the settlement if they win.  

Oh, and how long does anyone think this suit will take? I would say 18 months before it even goes to trial. A lot can happen in the meantime.

Login or register to post comments by Unlawful Justice
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:30
#682001

Sharks eating sharks,

A real shark-fest gladiator arena.

Mutual destruction sequence………………… commence.

Sharks smell fear, but can they smell the their own fear?

 

Login or register to post comments by CPL
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:08
#682087

No one in here will see the end of it, because it will be simplely forgotten when the first shots are fired by some loon and the war starts.

Login or register to post comments by CrockettAlmanac.com
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:23
#682225

The lawyers are not doing this because they are pure of heart.  They are doing it for their cut of the settlement if they win.

 

Are we to assume that you refuse payment for services you render?

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 00:25
#682538

“I would say 18 months before it even goes to trial.”

Au contraire. I’d suggest the defendants will offer a handsome early settlement before too much discovery is conducted.

OTOH, while lawyers jump at settlements, well-heeled plaintiffs sometimes prefer to force a public trial.

Login or register to post comments by tmosley
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:59
#681943

You do know that JPM and HSBC are the custodians for SLV, right?  I’m thinking this is going to bankrupt those two firms, and their vaults will be found to be empty, or at least double sold, at which point SLV is going to do a nose dive while physical silver bores a hole straight through the moon, Looney Toons style.

Login or register to post comments by Imminent Crucible
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:20
#681979

And while we’re discussing JPM and HSBC, we’ll mention that they issued statements to the effect that they do not audit their gold and silver holdings, nor do they require that custodians or subcustodians do any audits.  Or much of anything else.

Login or register to post comments by chopper read
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:54
#682490

yep, they just take Jerry’s word for it because he’s friend with Joe down at the corner store.  its all straight-up for the most part.  if it gets confusing they check with Lenny who keeps track of it on the back of a napkin most of the time.  its pretty organized, really.  so there’s nothing to worry about.  

Login or register to post comments by Xibalba
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:29
#681997

two words: take delivery.

Login or register to post comments by weinerdog43
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:50
#682057

Good point.  This does not even need to get past the discovery phase to kill them off.  My 1st interrogatory would go something like:  “Please state to the nearest 100lbs the amount of silver bullion in JPM vaults that backed the JPM trades between January 1, 2005 to January 1, 2008.” 

Login or register to post comments by Lady Heather…UNCLE
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:10
#681821

OK..I’ll do it

SILVER BITCHEZ!!

Login or register to post comments by malusDiaz
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:11
#681825

no no no, its

 

GOLD BITCHES!!!

 

SILVER HOES!

Login or register to post comments by fasTTcar
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:43
#681905

Cold, hard, shiny BULLION Bitchez…

Login or register to post comments by CrockettAlmanac.com
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:28
#682232

Thank you for being a friend,
Traveled down the road and back again,
Your heart is true, you’re a pal and a confidant.

And if you through a party,
Invited everyone you ever knew,
You would see the biggest gift would be from me,
And the card attached would say thank you for being a friend.

Login or register to post comments by Walter_Sobchak
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:26
#682347

The Golden Girls ain’t dead yet.  Those bitches gonna shoot clear to heaven.

Login or register to post comments by ShankyS
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:37
#682022

Sorry, I fat fingered the junk button. My bad.

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:11
#682316

Hit it again and it will un-junk.

Login or register to post comments by malusDiaz
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:11
#681824

GETTEM!

Login or register to post comments by moofph
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:14
#681830

…”watershed case that finds two of the biggest manipulators finally guilty?”

only if justice is served…and there are enough people in the country that still realize what justice means.

Login or register to post comments by MayIMommaDogFac…
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:11
#682207

CFTC just ruled against Judge Painter’s request (which was the scandal back a couple of hundred hours or so — it is so hard to remember them all): 

In an order dated Oct. 25 the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) denied the request of retiring Administrative Law Judge George H. Painter to have his remaining cases reassigned to a judge detailed from another agency.

 

Two weeks ago we reported that Painter had made the request in a notice sent to complainants and their attorneys in his remaining cases based on his belief that they would not get a fair hearing from the remaining CFTC administrative law judge Bruce Levine.

 

Painter alleged that Levine told him that he had promised former CFTC Chair Wendy Gramm “that he would never rule in a complainants favor” and added that a review of his rulings confirmed his bias. Painter also attached a December 2000 Wall Street Journal story by Michael Schroeder titled, “If you got a beef with a futures broker, This Judge Isn’t for You—In  Eight Years at the CFTC, Levine Has Never Ruled In Favor of an Investor” that details Levine’s penchant for favoring brokers over investors seeking reparations.

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:29
#682239

WTF???

Login or register to post comments by TheDriver
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:28
#682350

Why are you surprised, MsCreant? Surely you read that timely and dutifully researched article in the WSJ that documented Painter’s alcoholism and questionable sanity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230401160457556461064666383…

Login or register to post comments by chopper read
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:57
#682494

everyone knows that if you drink a few too many that you forgo your rights under the Constitution.  sheesh. 

Login or register to post comments by Brutlstrudl
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:15
#681834

Ted Butler for president, Bitchez

Login or register to post comments by spanish inquisition
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:16
#681837

Sorry, they were acting under a national security double secret POMO/congressional backstop program and cannot be sued. Those filing can be brought up on terrorism charges by causing instability in the FED ponzi scheme and sent to Gitmo.

Login or register to post comments by saulysw
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:35
#681868

I fear there is a lot of truth to your tounge-in-cheek comment.

Probably the best we can hope for is that there is more publicity on this issue and manipulation becomes harder to achieve from this point onward.

Login or register to post comments by Pants McPants
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:42
#681901

You sir/ma’am have an excellent sense of humor.

Login or register to post comments by Walter_Sobchak
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:30
#682354

Gitmo has some nice beaches, and a tiki bar I’m exceptionally fond of…

Login or register to post comments by tahoe69
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:16
#681838

This will be settled with a fine. That’s how financial business is done. Its in the business plan cheat now pay small consequences later.

Login or register to post comments by Turd Ferguson
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:16
#681839

SIGN ME UP! I’M ELIGIBLE FOR THIS CLASS ACTION!!!

Seriously, this is a big fucking deal. Chilton comments coming at a time when the silver Comex is having major, significant delivery problems can combine to create the “perfect fucking storm” to take down the Evil Empire.

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:30
#681869

Right on Turd.Lets give em a taste of their own medicine.Pretty sure there is a lot of nations buying and demanding physical to pay back old scores against the Evil Empire,China,Iran,Bangladesh,Turkey,just to name a few.The wheels could well come off in the next few months as they promise physical they can,t purchase.F*****g great,can,t shaft you on the battlefield but we,ll just keep buying until you have no physical left.Perfect storm a comin.

Login or register to post comments by Missing_Link
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:22
#681988

How do I sign up?  Someone post instructions please, I’m too lazy to figure it out on my own.

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:23
#682342

I’m too lazy to post instructions!

What are we gonna do now?

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:39
#682458

Take a sip from the little bottle you found (watch out for the Grue!) :>D

Login or register to post comments by tmosley
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:01
#681950

Here’s hoping they include owners of physical silver in their class action.  I would have sold all of mine for a huge profit had they not driven down the price and sunk my friend’s boat with all my gold and silver on board 😉

Login or register to post comments by Pladizow
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:17
#681840

Outcome = Nothing

Against national security!

Login or register to post comments by brushfire
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:17
#681841

and there you have it

Login or register to post comments by Lndmvr
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:18
#681844

How far back do we have to show buying reciepts to be part of the class?

Login or register to post comments by Bastiat
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:19
#681846

Agreed, Mr. Ferguson.  And that coming just a week after the CFTC judge retired and ratted out his colleague.

Login or register to post comments by Real Estate Geek
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:13
#682211

“Ratted out” is such loaded phrasing.  I much prefer “did God’s work.”

Login or register to post comments by Gordon Freeman
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:19
#681847

TGP is right: the case is either going to 1) get thrown out 2) settled for a pittance, with no admission of guilt.

I don’t like it, but what have the actions of TPTB been showing us all along?

Login or register to post comments by pachanguero
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:23
#681850

take physical delivery of your silver and gold!

 

Fuck the New World Order!

Login or register to post comments by scatterbrains
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:12
#681966

taken a step further.. your a yellow bellied traitor and a sell out to your country men if you own any paper versions of gold/silver.

Login or register to post comments by High Plains Drifter
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:25
#682229

I was thinking about selling some of my golden doubloons and buying some Chinese solar stocks. i heard you can make a killing do that.

Login or register to post comments by Oh regional Indian
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:36
#682362

High Plains,

Ironically you may be on to something and Leo will be proven right for all the wrong reasons.

With a rare-earth lock down, Chinese solars soon may be the only affordable game in town….hmmmmmm…

And Silver, it’s the story folks. Not for nothing all this fast, co-ordinated noise, CFTC member’s getting a conscience, class action lawsuits and the like.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com

Login or register to post comments by boooyaaaah
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:57
#682070

OK i’ll take delivery of my 100 oz of gold

Now I am safe — I have $130,000 and the price will go up

But if the market is manipulated then the price can go down

And when it goes down it will go down fast and all of your bossom buddies gold bugs will run you over trying to get to the door first

Manipulation Bitches

 

Login or register to post comments by JLee2027
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:23
#682123

Your speaking of the phony paper market, not the real physical one which is going to dominate the paper one.

Login or register to post comments by High Plains Drifter
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:27
#682234

The minute you buy some physical , there will be a major correction down, but that the nature of the beast. Just hold it and forget about it.

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:26
#682346

The Drifter has it right.  Almost always when I buy any PM, the price goes right down, until it goes up higher later on.  Some 85% of the gold I bought was at or near its “highest price ever”.

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:37
#682364

You really don’t understand what it’s all about. 

“Price” is a secondary consideration.

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:23
#681851

Wonder what the true unmanipulated price would be.Problem is if you stop manipulation in one place it will just appear somewhere else in a different guise.The more people wake up nto real wealth the harder for the Banksters to manipulate.Love to see a strike where workers demanded to be paid in Gold and Silver.

Login or register to post comments by Johnny Dangereaux
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 01:06
#682593

Wonder what the true unmanipulated price would be?

I use the Coinage Act of 1792 as a guide….and the ratio of Gold to Silver found in the Earth’s crust…kind of a Natural Law sort of kind of like thing,you know…..

15:1

Silver should be about 86 bux/oz now….minimum!

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:25
#681853

Take Physical,bankrupt the Bastards.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:28
#681855

If the White House “intelligence czar” can exempt public companies from SEC reporting requirements aka cook the books……….

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/may2006/nf20060523_2210.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

Intelligence Czar Can Waive SEC Rules

Now, the White House’s top spymaster can cite national security to exempt businesses from reporting requirements.

…..you can bet your bottom fiat dollar that there’s some Presidential order or directive legally absolving these banks from manipulation of PM’s “in the interest of national security”. Bet on it.

Ever wonder why these banks/companies act as if they’re above the law? That’s because they are.

Login or register to post comments by Goldilocks
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:46
#681902

Absolutely … right on.

Politics, gamesmanship, & perhaps a confidence extender …
… that’s all this will amount to. Oh, & if someone actually gets close to a legitimate conviction … well, let’s just say, tragedy will precede it.

Login or register to post comments by RiffRaff
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:55
#682179

I hear you, but one would think that .gov would certainly not want to officially wade in and shut this down in such a clumsy and visible manner.  It would impugn the integrity of the free markets, such as they are, to publicly state that JPM is absolved of all guilt despite having perpetrated frauds that would put a “little person” in the big house until Y10K becomes an issue.

They’re above the law until the rabble realize that they’re below the law.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 04:08
#682723

…..officially wade in and shut this down in such a clumsy and visible manner. 

Who said anything about wading in and shutting it down? They will only pull the Ace out of their sleeve when all else fails and not a moment too soon. Before doing so, they will execute every legal maneuver know to mankind. They might even get Congress to pass a law blessing them a la indemnity for telecom companies for wire tapping.

Don’t be so foolish as to think just because they have indemnity they will use it immediately. But wouldn’t you act differently if you knew no one could touch you, even if it was a secret?

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:34
#682361

I guess we are about to find out Cog Dis!

I will be following this closely for sure.

Login or register to post comments by DonutBoy
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:27
#681858

Don’t get it.  They had a huge short position in derivatives.  So what?  What’s the gripe here – that they won?  If they’d have lost no one would be suing them, we’d all write stories about what idiots those JPM and HSBC guys were.  Winding down trading desks as evidence of a crime?  Ridiculous.  They’re winding down their trading desks just like Goldman has ended prop trading.  Business decision, customers want their banks to be captial caretakers not traders.

 

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:29
#681866

Yup, you’re right.

You don’t get it.

Login or register to post comments by DonutBoy
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:54
#681930

I’d be glad to be educated. The trouble with conspiracy theories is that they’re never wrong.  They’re either right or the truth stays hidden.  If China wanted to replace 1/4 of their treasuries with precious metals the price would rise.  I think they should.  They haven’t.

 

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:59
#681944

For a long time China has been purchasing on the quiet,imagine the price rise if it was an official policy with set budgets.

Login or register to post comments by TheGreatPonzi
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:01
#681951

” The trouble with conspiracy theories is that they’re never wrong.  They’re either right or the truth stays hidden”

There are credible conspiracy theories and absurd conspiracy theories (mostly false-flag ones).

We won’t expect from JPM to publicly admit they manipulate prices.

But the manipulation is visible by everyone and will continue to be visible each day.

Like the lies of Da Pravda were visible by everyone. Yet, those who denounced those lies were called “conspiracy theorists”, “fools”, and “enemies of the State”. Ask Solhenitszyne he’ll tell you.

Login or register to post comments by Unlawful Justice
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:41
#682033

The Fabians originally were an elite group of intellectuals who formed a semi-secret society for the purpose of bringing socialism to the world. Whereas Communists wanted to establish socialism quickly through violence and revolution, the Fabians preferred to do it slowly through propaganda and legislation. The word socialism was not to be used. Instead, they would speak of benefits for the people such as welfare, medical care, higher wages, and better working conditions. In this way, they planned to accomplish their objective without bloodshed and even without serious opposition. They scorned the Communists, not because they disliked their goals, but because they disagreed with their methods. To emphasize the importance of gradualism, they adopted the turtle as the symbol of their movement. The three most prominent leaders in the early days were Sidney and Beatrice Webb and George Bernard Shaw. [2] A stained-glass window from the Beatrice Webb House in Surrey, England is especially enlightening. Across the top appears the last line from Omar Khayyam:

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=f…

Login or register to post comments by CrockettAlmanac.com
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:45
#682257

Interesting.

Can’t help thinking of Lambsy’s cry from the 1969 Saturday morning cartoon, “It’s the wolf! It’s the wolf!

http://www.toonopedia.com/mildew.htm

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:38
#682367

@Unlawful, I agree with Crockett, very interesting, thanks for sharing this with us.

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 00:43
#682567

“an elite group of intellectuals who were encouraged and financed to form a semi-secret society”

There … fixed it for you.

Login or register to post comments by Walter_Sobchak
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:42
#682378

ask yourself “cui bono?”  why wouldn’t they manipulate the price?  its profitable

Login or register to post comments by euclidean
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:26
#682127

hehe +1350; the SEC and CFTC have already shown their toothless nature even in light of the Flash Crash report, pitance fines imposed for noncompliance, and a distinct lack of governence of even basic GAAP rules for years – not to mention ignoring their own operating charters and constitutions.

So Congress is a prostitute, I’m sure we all have a price for silence. (The Fed is still trying to establish it for the sheeple). I’m surprised so many in the US take even more dumbing down so routinely. Invoking national security issues in the widespread corruption is genius – absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Auditors such as KPMG, Deloitte and PWC should not be left out of the equation. These should be frontrunning the reporting in any case and failed in their duty to report.

Login or register to post comments by themosmitsos
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 00:18
#682532

LOLOLOOOOOOOOL What’s Up Baby?!

Right on 🙂

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:44
#682374

Don’t get it.  They had a huge short position in derivatives.  So what?

They had their thumbs on the scale.  Fair and transparent trades were not the norm.

You read the article?   How about the complaint?

The manipulation has been documented by many commentators over the years.

You must be new to the issue.

Login or register to post comments by DonutBoy
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:28
#681862

Don’t get it.  They had a huge short position in derivatives.  So what?  What’s the gripe here – that they won?  If they’d have lost no one would be suing them, we’d all write stories about what idiots those JPM and HSBC guys were.  Winding down trading desks as evidence of a crime?  Ridiculous.  They’re winding down their trading desks just like Goldman has ended prop trading.  Business decision, customers want their banks to be captial caretakers not traders.

 

Login or register to post comments by TheGreatPonzi
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:36
#681891

It doesn’t stop at just having a big short position. We are in a situation where Wall Street impeaches the free market by having recourse to dishonesty, fraud, arrangement and monopoly.

Login or register to post comments by Bartanist
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:54
#681932

Well, it is a naked short position reported to be to the tune of 100:1 of the physical in existence. They can’t actually counterfeit silver, so they counterfeit the paper.

They would lock us all up for selling 100 times what we actually had with intention or capability to deliver … and pocketing the cash to use on other schemes and pay embezzled bonuses.

But for JPM, it is “just a short position”.

… and then there is the published Andrew McGuire evidence showing telegraphing the JPM manipulation to “those in the know”.

Login or register to post comments by Rick64
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:31
#681994

On March 25th at the CFTC Public Hearing on Precious Metals GATA made a dramatic revelation of a whistleblower source, Andrew Maguire, who has first hand evidence of gold and silver market manipulation by JPMorganChase and who has even tipped off the CFTC in advance of manipulative attacks on gold and silver. Just as in the Madoff case the regulator has done nothing to stop such manipulation.

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:27
#682681

“On March 26th while out shopping with his wife, Mr. Maguire’s car was hit by a car careening out of a side road. The driver of the vehicle then tried to escape. When a pedestrian eye-witness attempted to block the driver’s escape he accelerated at him and would have hit him had the pedestrian not jumped out of the way. The car then hit two other cars in escaping. The driver was apprehended by the police after police helicopters were called in and following a high speed chase.

 

Andrew and his wife were hospitalized with minor injuries.”

I never saw any follow-up on what happened to the apprehended hit-and-run driver.

McGuire cc’d Chilton in on his allegations during January and February and had to threaten to go public before he even got an acknowledgement of receipt of his “inside information” emails to the CFTC. 

Login or register to post comments by hamurobby
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:33
#682009

 There should be position limits to prevent over control from such a large player in the market, ask the Hunt Brothers about it. They got into a little trouble going long the same way, but they were not so well connected.

Login or register to post comments by euclidean
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:43
#682162

DB – dude it was ‘naked selling’ by a factor of 100:1 in a small physcial market. For every 1 ounce that existed to be plundered  purchased, 100 imaginery ounces was being sold. Still don’t see this as price fixing?

If they are winding down their trading desks, it might be due to either/all of

1. A shortage of fictional/farcical/fractional/fraudulent debt instruments 

2. A reduction in naked Ponzi positions to be committed to memory

3. A decrease in the number of moronic investors eager to participate in the rape of the century

4. Computer algorithms that replace 100 people with overheads at 15c an hour, no health care and no attitude 24/7/365.

They might be getting rid of people, but are now conducting business as usual in 15ms increments.

Login or register to post comments by Al Gorerhythm
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:04
#682670

Your confusion sows a lack of trading experience and an unsound knowledge of the CFTCs regulations on position limits and their “consternation” on someone cornering a commodity market, but only on the long side.

When the zinc market “short” sellers cornered the market wit promises to deliver what wasn’t there to deliver, (2008 I believe) the LBMA rescued the shorts by letting them call Force Majeure” and changed the rules to let the longs find another source of supply with no penalty for the failure of the shorts.

You can bet your blue boots that the same will occur in the silver market at the COMEX, which is why you should only be an in and out trader on the COMEX and take physical delivery on your contracts with them if you choose a longer term strategy. Moms and dads, just buy physical and turn your backs on the judicial system and the banks. Works for me.

Login or register to post comments by Gold Man Sucks
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:29
#681864

Its another straw on JPMORGAN’s back.

Just because hitting a branch a couple of times and it does not break,does not mean that it will not break by the tenth or sixtienth time.

Hit,hit and breaking time comes closer everytime.

By the way,where the fuck is Gordon Geko?

Login or register to post comments by saulysw
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:32
#681878

Where is GG? Hidden in a hill somewhere, on a huge pile of gold and silver, giggling like a maniac.

Login or register to post comments by Gold Man Sucks
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:43
#681906

Maybe GG’s ounces are open pitable.

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:43
#682382

Yeah, I miss Gordon_Gekko, Chumbawamba and dumpster!  Three of my fellow “Hold physical only” gold guys.

Good thing I have guys like Rocky & Hulk (and ladies like MsCreant) around to push everyone to financial safety: physical gold!

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:48
#682390

We are Sisyphus, and that rock is heavy.

Login or register to post comments by doolittlegeorge
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:31
#681871

BASTARDS! I’m shocked!  SHOCKED that there’s GAMBLING going on around here.

Login or register to post comments by Kassandra
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:34
#681879

You beat me to it!!

Login or register to post comments by SWRichmond
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:39
#681897

An appropriate line, since the other words spoken by Captain Renault in that scene are “This cafe is closed until further notice.  Clear the room at once”. 

Force Majeur?

Login or register to post comments by covered
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:54
#681929

Don’t forget, “your winnings, sir.”

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:46
#682387

LOL, SWR and covered!

Login or register to post comments by non-anon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:34
#681881

Since 2004, 2008? gov stole my silver from the Norfed aka Liberty Dollar warehouse. I have written two letters to the judges on this “case” against the Liberty 5 that is still on continuence with no trial date set. No response and no return of my property.

 

Don’t take paper but physical delivery on your precisous metals. If you hvae ETF’s or warehouse receipts, take physical delivery and help break the cartel.

Login or register to post comments by saulysw
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:34
#681882

One question : why has silver not reacted to this news?

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:36
#681888

Its not allowed to.

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:12
#681965

Case closed.

Login or register to post comments by apberusdisvet
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:44
#682163

When the news of this lawsuit gets to Asia, you’ll start to see a gradual climB (or even a spike to $25) when the metals dealers start loading the “vig”.  Muslims and Arabs will also react strongly.

Login or register to post comments by azengrcat
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:34
#681883

“Defendants have made large trades at key times”

I wish I could be that lucky…

Login or register to post comments by johnnymustardseed
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:36
#681889

This suit will take four years to move through the courts. They will continue their game. Sometimes it feels good to know the truth though. 

Login or register to post comments by THE DORK OF CORK
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:36
#681890

Let justice be done though the heavens may fall……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfAr8U0Vq_U 

 

Login or register to post comments by Bastiat
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:37
#681892

One of the points made in the complaint is that the Silver market has changed dramatically since the accusations were made.  If they think they are above the law, why have they backed off?  In a perverse (and childish) way, it’s comforting to think they are all-powerful and they’ve got everthing covered.  What if the whole, incredibly crude and stupid, great corrupt pile of shit is coming apart faster than they can respond?  What if THEY are the deer in the headlights trapped by the compelling perceptual inertia of their own delusions?

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:43
#681903

What if their own computers become faster than them and the market becomes unstable with computers over correcting computers in a faster and faster trading scenario.

Login or register to post comments by tip e. canoe
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:00
#681946

the HAL moment

Login or register to post comments by XitSam
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:08
#681960

I just had a thought, what if SkyNet wasn’t military … but financial.

(My apologies if this is not a new idea.)

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:15
#681969

SkyNet is multifaceted.

Login or register to post comments by Brutlstrudl
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:26
#681995

You can fool some of the people…

Login or register to post comments by Al Gorerhythm
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:08
#682674

Every fucking time…..

Login or register to post comments by themosmitsos
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:37
#681893

What’s most material here is II/B/46/47/48)a),(b)&(c)/70.

However, without the logs, it seems as conjecture and I feel I could impune it.

If I was plaintiff, my focus would be on 48(a) as it is a significant market event w/out direct & immediate bearing on the metals market [as opposed to OpEx for ex]. Prove it there, and you’ve proven it. That’s the spot where they’re most likely to have alot of log entries & “fake”
 orders.

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:20
#681978

I worry about getting a jury that can understand this stuff.

Login or register to post comments by nmewn
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:36
#682014

All they really need to understand is the banks cannot be “digitally short” something that they could never deliver in reality if they are wrong on their bet.

Similar to betting your neighbors house against your hand at a card game…they can understand that.

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:50
#682170

I have difficulty in class explaining the concept of naked shorting. The students think I am full of shit (really, they roll their eyes and wave me off, not possible, people don’t do that, they couldn’t get away with it). I get them to look up the Morgan Stanley Silver Short case where they had paper, no silver, and were even charging folks a storage fee. Their excuse? Common industry practice. 

But I hope you are right. We are in the thick of knowing about this stuff. I don’t think we fathom anymore how shocking all this truly is to folks who just work their 9-5 and don’t spend much time thinking about the economy until they lose their job, or can’t find one (many of my students) in the first place.

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:51
#682395

You are doing the country a favor, Missy, by bringing it up in a classroom.

Thank you.

Login or register to post comments by themosmitsos
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 00:24
#682537

Careful though, I’m not the professor here certainly, but every futures short, is a naked. 🙂

Login or register to post comments by Hook Line and S…
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 01:43
#682622

Start a ZeroHedge for kids…

K-12- ZeroHedgeHog dot com

High School and College – ZeroNookie dot com

Login or register to post comments by Al Gorerhythm
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:12
#682680

If common industry practice equates to law of the land, then gullibility is opportunity. Quick, sell them a bridge .

Login or register to post comments by RiffRaff
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:07
#682198

Great example. 

But they don’t even have to be wrong, do they?  All that needs to occur is for the counterparty to demand they perform what they’ve promised to do.

Login or register to post comments by Cheesy Bastard
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:48
#682242

Yeah.  Its like when your bookie says “pay up” and you aint got the cash.

Login or register to post comments by euclidean
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:56
#682183

Jury selection consists of … Do you or have you frequented ZeroHedge? … in place of the growing irrelevance of ethnicity, education and religion.

(Hint: when seating for selection, look for the trapdoor).

 

Login or register to post comments by MeTarzanUjane
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:35
#682013

I’m not sure how damages can be proven to a significant extent.

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:39
#681895

Imagine if all the countries that have been purchasing Gold recently suddenly started their own Gold standard on their currencies,they would be the worlds hardest currencies overnight,no fiat could compete,what would that set in play in the markets …………… ?

 

Login or register to post comments by hamurobby
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:39
#682025

Well, I would bet that the other currencies would immediately buy their hard currency and demand delivery, turning it into mush, it has happened in the past…

Login or register to post comments by apberusdisvet
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:49
#682167

I would imagine that this suit might cause just a tad correction to SLV, or will they have their bankster friends help them prop it up?

Login or register to post comments by thermroc
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:09
#682090

Close. Imagine if oil producing countries, who have been purchasing gold for decades, suddenly started openly offering oil for gold. Let’s say 1000 barrels for 1 ounce. Oil would depreciate against gold but not dollars. Gold would go to aprox. $85,000 oz. Oil producing, gold owning country’s long term plan becomes clear.

OK, lets imagine ME countries would love to do this, but have been dissuaded by US presence.

Which alliance of countries includes 20% of the world’s gold reserves, the world’s largest oil producer/exporter, and the necessary military deterence? Ever heard of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization?

“At the 2007 SCO summit Iranian Vice President Parviz Davudi addressed an initiative that has been garnering greater interest and assuming a heightened sense of urgency when he said, “The Shanghai Cooperation Organization is a good venue for designing a new banking system which is independent from international banking systems.”

The address by Russia’s Putin also included these comments: “We now clearly see the defectiveness of the monopoly in world finance and the policy of economic selfishness. To solve the current problem Russia will to take part in changing the global financial structure so that it will be able to guarantee stability and prosperity in the world and to ensure progress.”

Now how do you go about guaranteeing the stability of a financial system? Not a gold standard. A free gold market.

 

Login or register to post comments by nuinut
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:51
#682156

Oil would depreciate against gold

And so would everything else.

Be a great time to have marked to market gold reserves, eh?

Login or register to post comments by nuinut
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:33
#682197

 

Keynes was correct: The Gold Standard is a barbarous relic.

When there is talk today of “sound money”, which is sensible, gold and silver are inevitably arrived at. How many other realistic sound money options are there?

Gold and silver are options because they have a long track record in this arena.

But were they used in the most efficient way? Can we not do better?

We have had technology called the wheel for some time too. But we have tuned it up over the years. New materials, like metals and rubber. Internal combustion engine. Suspension, differential, gears, roading. And we expect to continue to refine this technology, and even to see it completely superceded, don’t we?

Why, when talk is of sound money involving gold and silver, do we not expect the same?

What if humanity had dismissed as absurd and unworkable the blasphemous notion of adding an engine and tyres to the sacred wheel?

So why, on the topic of gold and sound money, must we cling to the notion of coins in our pockets as a medium of exchange? Why include silver? Why “back” money with a fixed quantity of metal?

Why, when the Thoughts of A/FOA/FOFOA have laid out the groundwork for an evolutionary leap in this technology, ideas already implemented by the architects of the Euro, and now by the SCO members too?

Simple. It slows the implementation of Freegold to associate these ideas with gold. Red herring. Divide and conquer. The status quo is extremely beneficial to some, and they are happy to delay the inevitable derailment of their gravy train as long as possible.

Freegold uses physical gold as the ultimate inflation protected wealth storage vehicle, in tandem with the super efficient medium of exchange properties supplied by modern digital fiat currencies.

Central Banks already hold the gold reserves. Both the Euro and Russia mark their reserves to market already.

CBs are busy acquiring more presently, whilst trying not to run the price and crash the market, thus ending their acquisitions on the cheap. 

China is the world’s largest gold producer currently due to their phenomenal rate of extraction. Their reserves are nothing special, and will be mostly exhausted within a decade. Why?

Time is purchased with the inclusion of silver, coins as currency, gold as medium of exchange being promoted into the debate. They’re all red herrings.

 

Many sharp people are part of the ZH community, yet how many have engaged in a rational discussion about Freegold? They cannot, as long as they remain encumbered with the archaic ideas of the past. It is not a question of intelligence, but of incumbent outdated beliefs and assumptions blocking the good view.

This is a part of the reason I say “you don’t own your stuff, your stuff owns you”, with the stuff being mental.

But you cannot stop the market, en masse, from doing that which it deems necessary for its own survival, and the bulk of market participants don’t necessarily need to understand all the ins and outs. Time will supply those.

Free (physical) gold market, MTM reserves.

 

It’s Evolution, Baby

 

Login or register to post comments by DoChenRollingBearing
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:53
#682397

nuinut, is it not nice to see FOFOA getting more respect as time passes?

Login or register to post comments by nuinut
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:34
#682447

It is, and yet this is inevitable, is it not?

No one has poked a rational hole in his logic.

The actions of all the players continue to conform with the script laid out in the Thoughts of A/FOA/FOFOA. Note that the script came first. 

It is reasonable to look for this to continue, is it not?

I do not take it as a given, but the odds keep improving.

Is there another plausible roadmap to this monetary cataclysm that has proven as accurate?

 

 

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 22:59
#682408

Thanks!  Great stuff as usual.   Of course, there will be many who will not read your words since the theme is antithetical to their world view.  That being “paper” wealth.

Login or register to post comments by nuinut
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 00:19
#682474

The process of letting go of your mental “stuff” is pretty tough. The last couple of generations have no experience at all outside the paper paradigm; far from being an excuse, though, this should be a flag to the inquiring mind.

Some of these comments above are reposted from this ZH thread: Silver Money For Americans from a couple of days ago.

Login or register to post comments by Bearster
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:41
#681900

Aah, the irony.  Anti-trust.  The last refuse of the scoundrel, looking to restrain trade!  So they can go after a company for acts that would otherwise be *legal* except for the fact that the company is big, or is working with another company.

Who needs objective law anyways?!?  Let the courts decide based on who we all know is good or bad, and whose “side” are you one and is a case “for” or “against” the guys we all know are “bad”! 

Login or register to post comments by weinerdog43
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:58
#682071

Oh for pete’s sake. 

Who needs rules for sports either? 

Login or register to post comments by RiffRaff
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:27
#682233

Your comment is confusing – I’m sure it’s my lack of mental horsepower. 

You appear to support objective law, but then ridicule the notion that JPM’s actions should be evaluated based on objective law.

Are the words “objective law” some sort of magical incantation?  Is objective law likely to be obeyed – especially by those most able break it and least likely to be prosecuted – in the absence of enforcement?

Which actions do you feel that JPM has committed and for which they’re being prosecuted would be legal were the company not “big”?  Placing bets that they couldn’t deliver on, were they to go against them?  Concentration greater – working with another company – (on the short side) than the Hunts had on the long side?

Finally, I believe you meant, “last refuge”.  Perhaps next time you paste this in another thread, you can amend it.

Login or register to post comments by Silversinner
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:46
#681909

Don ‘t know how this will end but this

news made me so happy I’ll buy myself

some extra silver tomorrow just to ‘support’

the shorts a little extra.

R.I.P

Login or register to post comments by Chappaquiddick
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:48
#681914

What does this mean for the size differential between the paper and physical markets?  That didn’t appear in the text, or if it did I missed it.

 

 

Login or register to post comments by nuinut
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:41
#682253

Mark the physical up, or the paper down. Same difference.

Everything goes down against physical.

A long way.

Login or register to post comments by Chappaquiddick
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:01
#682668

Not really – if you’re a bankster and you’re short paper – you’re looking at a win not a loss.  Does anyone know how these alleged huge short positions got started?  Why would the banks suppress price like this?  What was the original purpose?  Can anyone shed light on this for me?  Thanks

Login or register to post comments by Al Gorerhythm
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:18
#682687

Go to the Ted Butler archives

http://www.butlerresearch.com/archive-free.asp

enjoy.

Login or register to post comments by Goldenballs
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:52
#681922

It means those who demand physical first should get it,say the first 1%,the rest will have a nice certificate framed on the wall worth bugger all.

Login or register to post comments by Goldilocks
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:30
#681992

I think there is a premium on the redemption … it would be …

bugger all x (times)  115%.

Login or register to post comments by nuinut
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 21:45
#682262

Yup, just like getting your money out of the bank.

Only possible at the margin.

 

Login or register to post comments by Silversinner
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:56
#681935

Think the silver slippers aproaching Oz closer and closer.

Just love fairy tales.

Login or register to post comments by Husk-Erzulie
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:46
#682046

Wow, right to the root metaphor.  L. Frank Baum loves you back.

 

Login or register to post comments by goldmiddelfinger
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 18:58
#681940

And JPM had the temerity to ask if my licenses were “clean”

Login or register to post comments by Crab Cake
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:07
#681954

Love your country, burn a bank; figureatively of course.

Comex is a fraud that will be outed eventually, just like Madoff. This could be the beginning of the watershed of delivery taking.

To all of you defeatist, we’re always going to be serfs forever and ever amen, nothing will come of it ftards….. Your attitude is giving you exactly what your apathetic fat ass deserves; a corrupt economy and government. Cease participation with the institutions you disagree with, that’s all it takes.

Login or register to post comments by lawrence1
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:42
#682032

Exactly, cease participation.  Stoped trading in a Fidelity account, those fuckers execute a stop loss when it pleases them.  Cavalier sons of bitches.  Closed Wells-Fargo .. more and more fees, bunch of pretentious little shits called personal bankers.  All monies out out of pensions, etc.  Telling friends, others about the changes in money market rules.

 

Login or register to post comments by hamurobby
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:45
#682043

Funny thing, the other day I was driving down the road and a regional bank branch had all its employees standing on the corner holding signs and waiving at the passing cars, I could not believe it. I go into two major banks that I have accounts with and exchange pennies for me and my kids to separate copper and find wheats, and they are as nice as can be. It seems times are hard around here for banks lately.

Login or register to post comments by Al Gorerhythm
on Thu, 10/28/2010 – 03:26
#682696

I saw two guys beating the shit out of a Wall Street banker the other day. I said to my buddy, “That’s not fair. Let’s see if we can help”

We entered the fray so as to make the odds better.

That banker took an awful beating.

I awoke with a smile all over my face.

Login or register to post comments by Silversinner
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:07
#681956

This lawsuit will probely not be the straw,but it good

generate a lot of attention to the silvermarket.Once

people’s attention is drawn to silver,some of them will

start buying the stuff or even better, people whom hold

these paper silver(ETF) will change them for real physical.

 

Login or register to post comments by PeterSchump
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:09
#681963

I have an idea.  Everyone start taking delivery. _everyone_  After your last buy and the prices have skyrocketed, short paper.  The price collapses, but you you have your physical, and made a profit on the the short paper if your counterparties still survive.  If they don’t, you still have your physical.

Login or register to post comments by nmewn
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:10
#681964

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/10/full-text-of-cftc-commissioner-bart.html

“The Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which I strongly supported, contains new manipulation provisions as well as anti-disruptive trading rules. These new authorities, along with the implementation of thoughtful position limits in metals, will go a long way toward ensuring more efficient and effective metals markets devoid of fraud, abuse, and manipulation.”

Heh heh 😉

Login or register to post comments by Spalding_Smailes
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:50
#682056

Brutal …

 

As Adam Warner over at the Daily Options report points out, irrespective of the split’s success, the move finally and conclusively slams a nail into the ETN’s purported trackability with the VIX Index itself.  Those who read the prospectus, of course, would have known from the onset that the product — despite its name — was never really even intended to perform such a task.

As Warner notes nevertheless:

This should resolve all problems in VXX (not). VXX is a mathematical concoction based on derivatives (VIX futures) that trade off a statistic (the VIX). It was just a number when they started trading it a 100, it was just a number at 12.5, and will become……..just a number at 50. A stock price is just a number too, but it bears a relationship to the cash the company generates, the earnings per share, et. al. VXX does not, the only “asset” is the VIX futures (or swaps) that it owns. And if it keeps losing money rolling those futures/swaps, its VIX Explosion or bust.

All of this, though, is common knowledge for anyone really monitoring the effects of the contango roll on the product since inception:

 

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/10/27/385376/whos-partial-to-a-vxx-…

Login or register to post comments by bob_dabolina
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:16
#681967

We have to understand something here. When Lloyd Blankfein said that they do “gods work” he was right to an extent.

The Federal Reserve and the 16 primary dealers faciliate the money and credit throughout the world and control the worlds reserve currency. 

This syndicate of bankers in essence is more powerful than any combination of world leaders, or of all world leaders…combined.

It’s important to understand that their power is not forced upon on us. We accept it as a way of life (kind of like how people choose religion)

We know it’s not fair and we hate it… but we all have bank accounts, accept lines of credit from them, and transact in a currency that they control. So when they get sued, brought to court, brought in front of congress, they will always win.

This will go where everything else goes. A $60m fine and don’t do it again.

…and don’t expect much (if any) retribution for fraudclosure.

p.s – don’t hate on me, just being a realist.

Login or register to post comments by TheGreatPonzi
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:22
#681986

Agree completely with you.

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:35
#682010

“It’s important to understand that their power is not forced upon on us. We accept it as a way of life (kind of like how people choose religion)”

 

 – eh, maybe you accept it as a way of life, and a spineless wonder you are !!, no doubt you drank plenty of KoolAid, but the fact is, their power IS forced upon the people, at gun point. Try stepping out of line there guy.

 

 

 

Login or register to post comments by bob_dabolina
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:38
#682015

Rusty Shorts –

How do you pay for the internet bill?

and…

Did someone force you to pay it at gunpoint?

or…

Did you pay for it in fiat currency by choice?

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:42
#682030

Spoils of War of course, courtesy of President Andrew “‘Ole Hickory” Jackson. Look into it.

Login or register to post comments by bob_dabolina
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:47
#682040

And which currency did you use to pay your internet bill?

Seeing as you called me spineless, I am dying to know.

😉

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:49
#682054

 – well, you see, I came up with my own script, and payed my internet bill with them…even backed the script with silver !! That’s when my problems started, some dudes in Black Suits showed up at my door, held a gun to my head..and…do I have to spell it out for you?

Login or register to post comments by bob_dabolina
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:55
#682060

I think you’re spinless for talking shit on a system in which you are complicit.

…no, you didn’t pay your internet bill in silver (or any imaginative derivative you made up in your schizophrenic brain)

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 19:57
#682066

Bahahahaha, complicit, are you kidding me? This shit was forced down our throats the day we were born. Wake Up.

 

bob, chill out, I’m on your side.

Login or register to post comments by RockyRacoon
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:15
#682420

Yes, you are on his side.  But calling someone a spineless wonder doesn’t help the discourse.  Perhaps finding the common ground first would help?  (Yeah, I know.  I’m a big one to talk…)

 

Login or register to post comments by Oh regional Indian
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:08
#682416

Bob, Rusty is in the same tight spot you and I and the rest are. The cradle into which we are born IS the system. They are outlawing Mid-wifery for god’s sake.

To be out of the system is literally impossible. You see the system being implemented in a diverse and heterogeneous non-nation country like India through the innocuous mobile phone. The best tracking device devised. Eh?  

Or you go find your self on an island somewhere.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com 

Login or register to post comments by Crab Cake
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 20:26
#682129

Acceptance and awareness, of the status quo are two entirely different things, and what is this we shit. You accept, don’t go looking for company, you is who you control. Lay down if you want.

Login or register to post comments by bob_dabolina
on Wed, 10/27/2010 – 23:35
#682446

Crab Cake:

Not sure what that means.

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2 thoughts on “JPM, HSBC Sued For Silver Market Manipulation, Reaping Billions In Illegal Profits

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