There Goes Wells Fargo: California AG Calls On Banks To Halt All Foreclosures In California

Tyler Durden's picture Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/08/2010 14:18 -0500

Charlie MungerMexicoWells Fargo

Sorry Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger: the lie was fun while it lasted. Suck it up.

BN  *CALIFORNIA AG CALLS ON BANKS TO HALT FORECLOSURES IN CALIFORNIA

and there’s more:

BN  *AG BROWN SAYS IN TALKS WITH BOFA, ALLY, JPMORGAN, WELLS FARGO

and yes, it’s now airborne:

BN  *NEW MEXICO AG CALLS FOR SUSPENSION OF MORTGAGE FORECLOSURE

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by Ivanovich
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:19
#636159

The lie is still fun.  Stocks at new daily highs.

Login or register to post comments by schoolsout
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:48
#636298

anyone see this yet from 4closurefraud?

 

http://4closurefraud.org/2010/10/08/action-alert-is-pres-obamas-pocket-v…

 

snip…

The word is out that Pres. Obama’s pocket veto of the Digital Robo-Signing Act was actually a trick.  Sen. Harry Reid didn’t actually adjourn the U.S. Senate.  The Senate has been kept in session by a little understood ruse and the bill will become law tonight at midnight without the President’s signature.

The big banks will file suit after the election to have this bill declared to be law.

Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution seems to support this view.

Some drunken bankers were already bragging about this an some major news outlets, including Fox News have reported on this.

Login or register to post comments by schoolsout
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:55
#636336

Denninger talking about it now

Login or register to post comments by knukles
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:10
#636394

Is there not a single fucking thing that is not broken anymore?

Login or register to post comments by JLee2027
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:15
#636722

I’m hearing O’s golf game is heating up nicely.

Login or register to post comments by LostWages
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:09
#636388

Saw this on White House twitter: 

 

For Immediate Release

It is necessary to have further deliberations about the possible unintended impact of H.R. 3808, the “Interstate Recognition of Notarizations Act of 2010,” on consumer protections, including those for mortgages, before the bill can be finalized. Accordingly, I am withholding my approval of this bill. (The Pocket Veto Case, 279 U.S. 655 (1929)).

The authors of this bill no doubt had the best intentions in mind when trying to remove impediments to interstate commerce. My Administration will work with them and other leaders in Congress to explore the best ways to achieve this goal going forward.

To leave no doubt that the bill is being vetoed, in addition to withholding my signature, I am returning H.R. 3808 to the Clerk of the House of Representatives, along with this Memorandum of Disapproval.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
October 8, 2010.

Is this just bullshit?

Login or register to post comments by knukles
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:12
#636403

What else hasn’t been?  No truth spoken, no promises kept.  Friday action to be reported in Saturday newspapers, if not wholly ignored by the MSM. 

Login or register to post comments by schoolsout
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:15
#636413

Sounds like it to me.

Fucked up world we live in.  I wish the people of this country had balls…everyone I talk to about this don’t know…and when I tell them about it, it rolls off their back.  Fuck me.

Login or register to post comments by andybev01
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:24
#636595

Hope someone has archived that just in case it’s called into question later.

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:40
#638131

Nope. Barry knows what kind of backlash he’d get from this. Look for an end-run elsewhere…probably ensconced in some emergency appropriations “for the troops” or somesuch.

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:44
#636532

Did you see they are now claiming this bill was just a shout out to Calvin Coolidge, who was a notary in New Hampshire?

You can’t make this shit up

Login or register to post comments by Buck Johnson
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:44
#636991

If this is the case, it’s horrible truly horrible.  They know how bad this really is and they can’t get the banks out of this by an legal means.  Because they have not only broke federal laws, they broke state laws as well and essentially lied to the court on every instance they did this.

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:43
#638133

Not to mention enough back taxes to choke a whole Wells Fargo wagon train worth of horsies.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:20
#636168

Tyler

Isn’t being correct with your prediction such a sweet taste in the mouth? The only bitter part is that you’re discussing the end of the world as we know it.

Try some Listerine. It helps.

Login or register to post comments by knukles
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:02
#636362

How now, brown Dow?

If the Senate has not been adjourned, then there may legally be no recess appointments.

Watch that space!

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:21
#636169

fire one up cali, your stash is safe for now

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:21
#636170

This just seemed fitting:

 

Robert the Bruce: [after William is betrayed] Father! You. Rotting. Bastard. Why? Why?Robert Bruce, Sr.: Longshanks required Wallace. So did our nobles. That was the price of your crown.Robert the Bruce: Die! I want you to die.Robert Bruce, Sr.: Soon enough I’ll be dead. And you’ll be king.Robert the Bruce: I don’t want anything from you. You’re not a man, and you’re not my father.Robert Bruce, Sr.: You are my son, and you have always known my mind.Robert the Bruce: You deceived me.Robert Bruce, Sr.: You let yourself be deceived. In your heart, you always knew what had to happen here. At last, you know what it means to hate. Now you’re ready to be a king.Robert the Bruce: My hate will die … with you. Login or register to post comments by Gromit
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:05
#636828

Methinks the Bruce doth protest too much!

Login or register to post comments by molecool
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:21
#636171

Is it wrong to feel a bit of ‘Schadenfreude’ about this?

Well, no matter what happens – equities will ramp. Bad/horrible news – market up due to expectations of QE2. Good news – market up since it’s good news!

I wonder if a small tactical nuke launched at the center of a populated U.S. city could propel the Dow to 13,000?

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:25
#636187

It would clear out a decent % of those nasty distressed properties and therefore be positive for the economy.  As an added bonus, unemployment figures would suddenly improve!

Login or register to post comments by Cojones
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:27
#636196

Beat me to it.

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:29
#636206

I hit refresh and saw your comment pop up at the same time as mine.  Twisted crowd here at ZH to have the same demented comments pop up like that!  lol.

Login or register to post comments by Cojones
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:26
#636191

Of course it would . Unemployment would drop, construction would surge, etc. The best thing that could happen to the Dow is the big one stirring up Cali.

Login or register to post comments by cossack55
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:37
#636241

As long as it is not the Hamptons.

Login or register to post comments by tmosley
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:54
#636334

Nothing wrong with schadenfreude.  Here’s an instructional video by Gary Coleman, who knows all about being on the other side of the equation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XmZIcmRKkc

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:44
#638138

I wonder if a small tactical nuke launched at the center of a populated U.S. city could propel the Dow to 13,000?

 

Broken Arrow fallacy?

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:21
#636172

Doesn’t Wells hold the lionshare of mortgages?

Login or register to post comments by MayIMommaDogFac…
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:21
#637384

I think they have the lionshare of HELOCs — perhaps more than 1T? 

Well, it’s 1T when you’re using mark-2-WTF…

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:45
#638142

Perhaps not by sheer number, but definitely by value…CA is a pricy RE market and that’s where their loans and MBS are cluster(fuck)ed.

Login or register to post comments by Millennial
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:21
#636174

I’m gonna MMMBop my way to my foreclosure.

 

 

Login or register to post comments by cossack55
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:40
#636253

I know this puts me in a new section of the “kind of out there” camp, but I always rather liked that song.  I wish I would not have watched the video, though. 

Login or register to post comments by aheady
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:42
#636270

Gross.

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:47
#636296

Those girls are just tomboys. Why so negative?

Login or register to post comments by Millennial
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:01
#636358

I think Pianist in the group is hot. 

 

Actually I just like saying pianist.

Login or register to post comments by aheady
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:23
#636441

lolol

Login or register to post comments by Cursive
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:23
#636177

We will have full nationalization of the the banks.  What other end game is there?

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:28
#636201

Hmmmm……….. could this be a short-term dollar positive? Bank-runs anyone?

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:37
#636240

Right, full fascistic socialism of america should be great for the equity indexes! And if people dont like it, off with your heads!

Login or register to post comments by Leo Kolivakis
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:42
#636259

Full nationalization of US banks would be a disaster, but given the way these assholes are running them, they’re virtually asking the gvt to step in and do it!

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:48
#636302

Leo, 

You doomer. 

Login or register to post comments by Arkadaba
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:42
#636635

lol

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:23
#636442

I think a possible disaster in exchange for a proven one is a sane risk. 

Login or register to post comments by tmosley
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:43
#636529

So, rather than taking a broken arm, you would take a pull of Russian Roulette?

Magnitudes need to be taken into account in such scenarios.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:04
#636692

I’ve heard that intelligent people can disagree about things.  Including their assessments of risk.  Allowing a bankster cartel (that could make the Mafia cower) to continue on its present–and unchanging–course strikes me as fatal.  Russian roulette would indeed be preferable, if you like that analogy. 

Login or register to post comments by pvzh
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:21
#637701

Besides, in original russian roulette there is a way to never lose.

Login or register to post comments by Rasna
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:54
#636582

We should have nationalized the banks back in 08/09 instead of TARP and created a Bad Bank for all of the bad assets… That would have allowed them to get all of this bad crap off of their books and allowed for a fresh start… Obama and company (Tim and Summers) advised against this and we are where we are becaus of the incompetent inaction… At some point nationalization HAS to come into play… It will be painful short term but will be good long term.

Login or register to post comments by nwskii
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:35
#636232

This is like a snowball, the more it moves the bigger it gets 

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:37
#636235

Desperately lacking thier own printing press and seemingly hung out to dry – could it be the failing state governments / munis / pension funds / etc. that turn to eat the banks and federal government along with fed?

Login or register to post comments by LostWages
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:37
#636236

Add Nevada to the list:

Oct. 08, 2010
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Nevada attorney general asks lenders to termporarily halt foreclosures

Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto sent letters to all residential mortgage lenders in Nevada, asking them to temporarily halt foreclosures, evictions and sales of foreclosed properties, spokeswoman Edie Cartwright said this morning in an e-mail.

Login or register to post comments by RobotTrader
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:36
#636237

Wow..

News for the banks keep getting worse.

Those stocks should be crashing by 3% today.

Instead, they are down pennies.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:38
#636246

Yes, every time ZH reports one of these mortgage stories the market spikes. Pretty funny really.

Login or register to post comments by Cleanclog
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:42
#636265

Probably the Fed buying US bank shares since all assets can be purchased all the time anytime now by the Fed.  How large will that balance sheet grow?  Sigh

Login or register to post comments by A Man without Q…
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 04:31
#637459

I wonder what John Paulson is thinking?  Not only is his fund massively long US banks, but he’s also got the potential risk that his “greatest ever trade”, synthetic CDO may turn sour if the reference assets get bid up in the expectation of legal risks around the mortgage assets.  I don’t know if these positions were actually ever closed out…

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:46
#636290

Pretty clear the Fed wants a Dow 11k headline for today to mask this and the jobs news. 

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:39
#636250

Flip of the coin whether its good news or bad news? Seems mostly a political ploy right now, to get the insolent peasantry happy theyre not getting kicked out, for now. But lets see how its good news for the banks when every payment suddenly stops.

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:49
#636307

It’s unfortunate that this is called foreclosure-gate, or foreclosures are invoked to discuss this. 

The original sin is that the banks did not appropriately handle, transfer, etc. the original note and mortgage file. In many cases, the note may no longer exist. 

Therefore, every note and mortgage securitized say between 2004 and 2008 now has a clouded title. No way that is positive. 

Login or register to post comments by Ned Zeppelin
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:07
#636378

MORTGAGE-GATE

Login or register to post comments by Arkadaba
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:43
#636643

I agree. How about Paper-gate?

Login or register to post comments by blunderdog
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:58
#636681

Isn’t the real “original sin” that banks gave housing loans to anyone who could make an X on a sig line for 10 years?

 

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:32
#637065

title-gate

Login or register to post comments by Bay of Pigs
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:10
#637213

Full Retard Gate

Login or register to post comments by rubearish10
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:41
#636263

This story means nothing,,,,,,just like that Sub Prime thing that happened not too long ago. , ugh….

Login or register to post comments by Hephasteus
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:46
#636269

Ya keep everybody calm right before columbus weekend. Long weekend.

SOMETHING IS COOKING. They aren’t defending 1300 on gold. They are going to go full retard this weekend is the only thing I can think of.

2 people leave the white house this week.

I can’t figure out Rahm though. I would have thought he would be down with the plan. I guess we sit and wait and see if they are actually going to do it.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:54
#636332

It’s not really a long weekend. Markets are open on Monday.

Login or register to post comments by Hephasteus
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:03
#636369

But only markets. Banks are closed no bond auctions.

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:55
#636339

Figuring out Rahm is easy, they just opened the new NORAD bunker in Chicago, where hes headed to ride out armageddon. People dont realize it yet, but ‘game over’ is all complete except for the ‘event’ that unhinges it all.

Login or register to post comments by Oh regional Indian
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:20
#637228

Hey SheepDog one, you might find this funny/appropos:

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/the-lighter-side/

 

😉

ORI

Login or register to post comments by Hephasteus
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:51
#637409

LOL

Login or register to post comments by homersimpson
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:47
#636293

Probably your best comment in the past month.. even without the hot chix..

Login or register to post comments by ChanceIs
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:13
#636371

See Chris Whalen, Roubini etc at Wednesday’s conference at the American Enterprise Institute:

Living in the Post-Bubble World: What’s Next?

http://www.aei.org/event/100297#doc

Full video replay not yet available but certainly by Monday if not sooner.  Presentation materials available now.  Lachman is the most bearish amongst them.  It was my pleasure to see it live in person.  Whalen understands -says banks will be forced to reorganize – what this whole panel recommended three years ago.  The panelists seem to be calling for more QE.  They are better analysts than synthesists – developing solutions.

Just remember how long it took for the “levitating lenders” to crash and burn.  About 18 months after a reasonable time.  I don’t think the political class will have the stomach to bail out the banks again.  I have already called and bitched.

Just remember – if the government dos a bailout, the stockholders get hosed.

Recall how long it took DSL to crash and burn after Barrons pointd out that 70% of their earnings came from “imputed interest” off of option ARMS.

 

 

Login or register to post comments by Joeman34
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:37
#636242

So does this mean we should stop making mortgage payments?  Even if foreclosures are halted, defaulting would still negatively impact credit scores right? [And yes, I’m aware credit scores won’t matter once the majority are sh*&ty].  Just wondering about the practical implications of this news and if I should stop paying on underwater investment properties…

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:41
#636255

If I was making a mortgage payment Id definitely stop sending checks.

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:51
#636320

Personally, I’d wait a bit to see how it shakes out. And contact an attorney before you make any decisions. For instance, if your mortgage was kept in-house by a nice local bank, they will still be able to foreclose (and quickly) since the paperwork never left their file cabinets. 

Login or register to post comments by NotApplicable
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:21
#636430

If you stop making your mortgage payment, instead of falling, you’ve went and jumped into the trap.

No one will be allowed to have a free house.

Login or register to post comments by faustian bargain
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:45
#636540

However, trading a worthless property for X ounces of gold might be a good deal.

Login or register to post comments by JLee2027
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:26
#636755

No one will be allowed to have a free house.

We’ve paid for the house, it’s not free. There are just no more payments because no one else has title.

Login or register to post comments by Greater Fool
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:40
#636248

Did the California AG’s office add the legally mandated “I’m Jerry Brown, and I approve this message” tagline?

Login or register to post comments by andybev01
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:31
#636603

+10

 

I am getting soooooooo sick of political ads…

Login or register to post comments by rubearish10
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:39
#636249

All this is Bonus Fuel for QEII. Why not “throw it in” for good measure. 

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:39
#636251

Another reason to add to your AAPL position. All that disposable money that won’t be paid on mortgages will force everyone into the latest iPhone/iPad/iPod.

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:44
#636276

Assuming bankrupt unemployed americans are sitting on a vault of cash now freed up for some wild 2006 style spend till you drop shoppin sprees? I wouldnt bet on it.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:48
#636301

Been working for Apple so far. When we were in a “depression” everyone said Apple would die since people had no money to buy gadgets. But guess what? They continued to grow. More people bought more gadgets regardless of unemployment rates or 401k’s losing money. 

People will always want what they perceive to be cool regardless of what it does to them financially. When your entertainment is watching American Idol and playing video games, you don’t really need to spend much.

Login or register to post comments by Arkadaba
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:08
#636710

I disagree with your comment about people “want what they perceive to be cool regardless….” I do agree that Apple may continue to do well but for different reasons.

One, the typical Mac user is educated, affluent and dedicated. Apple has a large base of hardcore fans that aren’t going anywhere soon. (Believe me, I’ve met some of them – and there is no way they would switch to a PC even if it was half the price). I think the reason why may vary – first computer was a mac, visually oriented, work in graphics ….

Two, you might want to redefine gadgets. How many people do you know use their cell phone as ther primary number. I know I do. I use Skype at home for long distance and my cell as my primary number. I do not have a land line because I would be paying for something I would rarely use. If I were unemployed tomorrow I would hold onto my internet service first and my smart phone second (my phone is not a gadget). 

So I do agree with you that Apple might survive whatever is coming up but for different reasons.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:54
#636925

Majority of people buy iPhones because they’re very functional and many buy them because they perceive them as cool. These people never touched a Mac in their lives. But Jane down the street has one and Mrs. Doe also wants to be cool so she gets one. 

Don’t confuse the iPhone user with the Mac user.

Yes, your phone is not a gadget but your iPad certainly is. You could argue that you need a phone but an iPad? Really? iTouch? Really? AppleTV? Really?

Eventually, they’ll lose market share to competitors and something perceived as being “more cool” will come along. Until then, people will spend money they don’t have on gadgets that they perceive as being cool. Always been that way, always will.

Login or register to post comments by Ned Zeppelin
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:17
#637042

+++!

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:22
#637231

Eventually, they’ll lose market share to competitors and something perceived as being “more cool” will come along.

Eating and keeping warm in the winter time is that “more cool” stuff of which you speak!

Login or register to post comments by Arkadaba
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:45
#637278

Very tired – Long weekend here – I know I am right and can find some data to support my position. Later. Have a good weekend

Login or register to post comments by Troy Ounce
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:09
#637445

 

…it is all about your fuckability index….

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:08
#636384

I’d have to agree here…we seem to be forgetting most of these ppl bought houses they couldn’t afford and have added impact of job loss, etc…they didn’t have the money to pay the mortgage in the first place so the mountain of cash they have to spend now seems wildly overrated.

Login or register to post comments by RichardP
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:24
#637141

Source please.

Login or register to post comments by plocequ1
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:48
#636297

God bless you. I’ve been holding Apple since $ 205. I love Apple. Their products are great. It’s also a great stock.

Login or register to post comments by Hephasteus
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:36
#637157

I’ve heard you say that before. twice.

Login or register to post comments by tip e. canoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:36
#636496

don’t know about iShits, but after today’s action, looks most certain much more of that income will be going to towards the grocery bill.

CORN ETV up 14.61% today.

Login or register to post comments by 84Hog
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:43
#636260

I hate to throw cold water on the vibe here, but I don’t see how this could not be sorted out in the bank’s favor eventually.  Way too frickin’ much capital at risk here, plus the whole “moral hazard” thing too.  By rights, the banks should have to eat these losses, but the courts will view this as a technical error that can be corrected.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:49
#636311

I agree with this. No different than throwing out trades in a flash crash. Like they never happened.

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:54
#636330

Real estate law is local and very well established in terms of property rights. No original mortgage note, no mortgage. Where’s the note?

I don’t know how this will settle out, but it could be HUGE. 

No tickie, no laundry. 

Login or register to post comments by Idiot Savant
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:12
#636404

True, but in the majority of cases, an original note will be produced. Besides, if the note isn’t available, the bank will argue that the home was never sold and the residents are squatters. Regardless, I don’t see anyone getting a free home out of this SNAFU.

Login or register to post comments by swmnguy
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:12
#636717

I’m sure you’re right about this, IS.  How, exactly, this will play out is anyone’s guess.  But no free houses.

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:41
#636902

Your mortgage note is not your deed to property ownership.  It is a lien and the mortgage holder must ensure they are secured in the position they expect.  You are very naive if you believe the banks do not fully realize how significant this issue is.  Their processes for closing and processing these loans were very questionable in the hay day.  They didn’t worry as much as they should about crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s as they never saw this foreclosure tsunami coming — the wave just took them out.  The question is will they aspirate on the water before they can start treading it?

Login or register to post comments by anonnn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:49
#637089

re “prove” who holds the mortgage…IANAL, but demanding proof that the forecloser been assigned as note-holder is very viable in a legal proceding [e.g. in California]. Produce the assignment!

Demanding that a forecloser show or produce the note is not necessarily a recognized right.

There is a difference, in that the law recognizes that to become a note-holder, there must be an assignment as such [and perhaps a recorded assignment].

 

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:09
#636389

Good luck getting fraud through as a technical error.  The error occurred when they did the note in the first place.  They’ve had every opportunity to fix their capital at risk and have chosen not to.  

Login or register to post comments by Midasfinancas
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:41
#636261

So much SHIT going on in America and market keep pumping… It´s a total BULLSHIT OF A MARKET.

Login or register to post comments by Greater Fool
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:45
#636288

An alternative interpretation is that everyone knows this will all blow over pretty soon, and in the meantime it provides an easy thing to be against going into midterms.

Banks are stocked up on REO properties anyway, so waiting to add these new ones until the end of the year isn’t a big deal; they most likely wouldn’t be generating income either way.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:50
#636317

I am in the “alternative interpretation” camp on this. I think you’re spot on.

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:14
#636407

Definitely, I mean thank god subprime was contained.

Login or register to post comments by Ned Zeppelin
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:22
#637053

Harry: reconsider and look at some of my posts on this. It will not blow over. It is fatal.  This MortgageGate is just starting and has potential to be a tsunami.  You can’t fix “don’t own it” that easily in this world, and the tax, property law and other state and federal laws applicable to these highly technical MBS/REMICs are not forgiving when it comes to mistakes. You will see. Think B of A suspended foreclosures in 50 states because of “foreclosure paperwork problems” alone?  There is no way they would do that.  They have a gun to their heads.

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:26
#637236

Go long title search companies, and short title insurance companies.

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:56
#636344

The RMBS market measures in the trillions. Many of them now might not have any collateral. If you were an RMBS buyer and never got any assignment of mortgages, what would you do?

Will there be an RMBS market until they sort this out?

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:13
#636405

Imagine the political fallout if one were to remind the american tax payer how many shitty MBS’s we already own that we might not have clear chain of title to?  

Login or register to post comments by anonnn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:55
#637100

Assignment may be key: There must exist an assignment as note-holder in order to establish the note-holder. Thus the proof of assignment can be demanded. IANAL

Login or register to post comments by The Navigator
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:04
#637368

Something like 93% (or 97% – sorry for the dyslectic numbers jumble – it’s 3-something in the nineties- 100-3 or 90+3) of all newly written mortgages are going to the broken Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac; amazing.

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:11
#636397

It means they can’t sell the ones they have now…they have not only issues with those in foreclosure but those they already foreclosed. The risk to banks is how it is perceived to damage their capital not the full on sustained losses that they recognize immediately — remember the money isn’t packed away in a vault…perception is reality

Login or register to post comments by NumberNone
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:35
#636768

+1  You are exactly correct.  Everyone’s happy here….banks don’t have to take on any more inventory, government gets to bash the evil banks just in times for elections, homeowners get a few more months to buy iPads,and local governments don’t have to factor any more foreclosed homes into the tax base.  What’s not to love???

Why so gloomy everyone?  Get your rose colored glasses on and you’ll know why the market is so enthusiastic!!

Login or register to post comments by Miss Expectations
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:43
#636274

I’ve got my protest sign:

YOU SUCK

it up

Login or register to post comments by MrTrader
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:43
#636275

Professional banksters deserve a place with Mr. Madoff. Bernie, warm up your cell chair for your soon to be cell mates !

Login or register to post comments by Dr. No
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:45
#636280

This was predicted a couple of weeks ago…yawn.  The CA AG is Brown.  He is in a tight race for governor.  This will push him into a decisive lead.  Look for nothing to happen.

Login or register to post comments by Dr. No
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:48
#636306

This is bullish:  No one paying mortgage = higher taxable income (no mortgage deduction) = less california red ink.

Login or register to post comments by Dr. Engali
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:44
#636282

And the market continues to go higher.

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:44
#636283

Tyler…

 

Have you seen KD’s post

 

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2203988

 

about HR3808 potentially passing due to congressional session being left open?

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:50
#636314

I just heard that story myself, apparently Obunghole the communist lied directly to the american people and HR 3808 has passed, some giddy banker was just spewing that they really pulled the woll over the sheeples eyes this time! Oh man, is this gonna get ugly. I dont care about some BS pops in stocks like Robo is obsessed with all the time, things are about to get real bad quick.

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:55
#636335

I am hearing that it does not pass until midnight assuming the Senate session remains open.  The US Senate website says session was opened for pro forma session – which reeks of a sneaky move.

Login or register to post comments by Dr. No
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:55
#636337

Even more comedy:  A bill regarding signatures, passes by voice vote, only to be vetoed by not signing, only to become law because Harry Reid forgot to turn out the lights when he left.

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:26
#636454

Send comments…Call him an asshole, whatever but if nothing else inundate the server.

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/webform/comment-legislation?billname=H.R.%2038…

Login or register to post comments by Greater Fool
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:28
#636462

My understanding is that the veto has to be delivered to the House, since that’s the chamber the bill came out of. House is adjuourned until November.

Login or register to post comments by centerline
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:36
#636498

That’s my take on it too. Guess we will find out soon enough!

Login or register to post comments by blunderdog
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:21
#636740

I think the way a pocket veto works is the bill just never gets enacted because the POTUS drops it behind the radiator.  He’s still supposed to sign laws into effect, and if he doesn’t, they never go into effect, even if passed by Congress.

Login or register to post comments by RichardP
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:34
#637153

If Congresss is in session and passes a bill, it becomes law ten days after they submit it to the President for his signature – assuming Congress is still in session on the tenth day.  This assumes he simply has not signed the bill and has not actively vetoed it.  If Congress is not in session on the tenth day, and the President has not signed the bill, it dies.  The difference lies in whether Congress is in session ten days after they send a bill to the President that he does not sign.

Login or register to post comments by Arkadaba
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:38
#636506

If this is true, I think I will need to come up with a new term that means flabbergasted, gobsmacked or astounded by the audacity of America’s corpolitical ruling class!

As I recall from my years in the States, Friday night is a popular time to pass unpopular legislation.

Login or register to post comments by NorthenSoul
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:37
#636507

As much as I’m not particularily fond of Obama, I can’t imagine the Democrats (ie. Reid and Obama) pulling such a dirty trick, a month before the election.

 

It’d be pure political suicide.

Login or register to post comments by RobotTrader
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:45
#636286

Not just iPads.

All those newly unemployeds that get to live “rent free” for another 6 months are going nuts buying $150 workout outfits.

Login or register to post comments by Greater Fool
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:47
#636294

Nice composition on that photo.

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:52
#636324

Fancy workout duds and cool gadgets go hand in hand. Imagine showing up at your yoga class in a t-shirt and shorts with and Android phone. OMG! How horrifying!

Login or register to post comments by Arkadaba
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:37
#636618

I’ve done it! I’m sorry but there are so many better uses of a few hundred of my dollars than on a pair of yoga pants. And yes an android phone is one of them. I’ll stick to my raggedy gym shorts and t-shirts and invest the savings on yoga pants somewhere else.

Login or register to post comments by MountainMan
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:22
#636435

Ahhhh…the Bow River passing by Banff, Alberta….the chick is great too…

Login or register to post comments by SparkySC
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:52
#636322

I hate those 2 old liars.

Buffetttttttfake is the faud of the Century.

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:52
#636323

Reported HR 3808 has been slithered thru as passed law, contrary to the Liar in Chiefs assertion he ‘pocket vetoed’ it, senate was kept in session and the bankster fraud protection act will pass tonite at midnite.

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:42
#636520

Is there a reason he couldn’t just actually “VETO” the damn thing?  

Login or register to post comments by VeryDumbMoney
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:58
#636352

Is this considered a black swan now?

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:39
#636513

No. If it causes major harm to the economy, then yes. But right now, no, it’s not a black swan.

Login or register to post comments by SparkySC
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:59
#636354

shouldn’t she have laid out a towel/mat on that deck? Doing yoga on that old wooden pier will leave her Workouts duds torn up and her backside full of splinters. LOL

 

 

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:34
#636486

I trust that backside is hard enough to hold up to some wood.  Did I say that?

Login or register to post comments by andybev01
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:42
#636638

HA! Loved it.

Login or register to post comments by OutLookingIn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:00
#636357

Don’t forget this little known player in the background – ground zero for all OTC CDS MBS – for when the unwinding starts. The Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation, who’s subsidiary the Trade Information Warehouse, through the Warehouse Trust Company, which is under the Federal Reserve Banking System and is therefore backed by the taxpayer, will be the killing zone for these toxic mortgages with bailouts by the public purse! 

Login or register to post comments by NotApplicable
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:36
#636501

Don’t they own all of the stocks too?

Login or register to post comments by bankonzhongguo
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:02
#636360

I said it before, I have been in court verses Wells Fargo for two years in California on a case with clearly forged and manipulated loan app and closing docs, but the courts are going the way of: “if you got the money you owe it back.”  They do not care about MBS, fraud underwriting to Fannie or Freddie and other issues.  This press is about pretending to hit the banks before the elections.  Thats it.  There is so many foreclosures in the pipeline and OREO that the banks WANT a hiatus on foreclosures.  Don’t worry.  After the November election, they will be back in the swing of things.  Just you watch. NODs nailed to the front of your house on Christmas Eve.  Happy Birthday Jesus.

PS.  Did you guys hear about that CPS taking the baby away from that New Hampshire couple for being Tea Party members?  Google Stephanie Janvrin and get the word out pronto!

Login or register to post comments by Idiot Savant
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:22
#636436

Perhaps we should wait for the facts. I’ll be first in line to help if there isn’t cause.

UPDATE : 10/07/2010 10.53PM PST — We have confirmed that the affidavit in support of the order to take the child from her parents  states ,along with a long list of other assertions  against both parents, that “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the Oath Keepers.”     Yes, there are other, very serious allegations.  Out of respect for the privacy of the parents, we will not publish the affidavit.  We will leave that to Mr. Irish.   But please do remember that allegations do not equal facts — they are merely allegations (and in my  experience as a criminal defense lawyer in small town Montana I saw many allegations that proved to be false).

Login or register to post comments by faustian bargain
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:52
#636576

Just wait until assertions start coming out that certain people are “regular contributors to an extremist financial blog called Zero Hedge.”

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:08
#636711

Not hard at all to imagine.  Truly. 

Login or register to post comments by Fish Gone Bad
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:04
#636372

The news just keeps getting better.

Login or register to post comments by Ned Zeppelin
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:10
#636395

Please know that the problem – defects in formation – infecting the foreclosures infects all of the MBSs and everything that has to do with them.  You can’t even buy a home from someone who is paying off their MBS mortgage with the proceeds of sale, because the title company is now on notice that they have to figure out where the fucking mortgage is and who the fuck owns it. This will keep spreading like gangrene. 

A very big forest fire is starting, I’m afraid.

Login or register to post comments by swmnguy
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:18
#636726

You got it.  I wonder when title insurance companies start folding?

Login or register to post comments by NumberNone
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:21
#636429

Instead of covering the gambling debts of the big banks and letting the same worthless bets continue to ride on the backs of the worthless homeowners the banks financed. the Fed could have paid off almost every mortgage in the US.  As this rising tide of shit threatens the banks, how could the option of paying off every mortgage not now be on the table?

Nothing would surprise me at this point.  

 

 

Login or register to post comments by swmnguy
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:21
#636737

Almost exactly 2 years ago I said to some people, “They’re not serious.  We’ll know they’re serious when instead of commiting $12 Trillion to covering the banks’ bets, they take that same $12 Trillion and give $40,000 to every man, woman and child in America.  They’ll spend it on hookers and blow, and some will even waste it paying off their debt.  That’s when we’ll know these guys are serious.”

Everybody laughed then.

Login or register to post comments by win
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:24
#636450

H.R.3808 — Interstate Recognition of Notarizations Act of 2009

Did you get that? 2009

It was introduced Oct 14 , 2009

Last Year – They have known about this “problem” for a full year!!!!!

So expect that after the veto, “somebody” come ups with a solution – at the last minute –

Here he comes to save the Day –

Mighty Mouse is on his way!! 

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:50
#636919

Or they were just looking for a quiet moment to try and ram this through before they can’t hold their operations together with duck tape.  Don’t give them too much credit for thinking they might have a solution.

Login or register to post comments by LostWages
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:23
#637235

So the question becomes….Since the Senate is still “in session”, but the bill originated in the House, is the “Pocket Veto” effective or not?

Need a constitutional expert to clear this up.

 

Login or register to post comments by NorthenSoul
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:29
#636459

Scanning some boards (not seen here yet tought) it is obvious that some people believe this stuff is just a “paperwork problem”. Yeah right!

 

as a reminder, courtesy of Naked Capitalism: (http://xrl.in/6h9o)

We have been saying for some time that the affidavit problem that has led GMAC, Bank of America, and JP Morgan to suspend foreclosures in 23 judicial states could not be limited to these states. The robo signing of affidavits was clearly done across all sorts of court actions. As we indicated, the bogus affidavits are used in all foreclosures in judicial states; they aver various things about the plaintiff’s indebtedness, including the plaintiff’s ownership of the debt that are integral to the process. Providing an improper affidavit is considered to be a fraud on the court.

 

“Paperwork problem” much?

But the same fraud takes place in non-judicial states whenever a foreclosure is contested (which happens routinely in bankruptcy cases). So the false affidavit situation affects all states, just in much bigger numbers in judicial states.

Even more important, as we have stressed, the affidavit abuses are mere symptoms of much deeper problems with the mortgage securitizations. Why, pray tell, are law firms and servicers engaging in false representations and widespread document forgeries? It is because, as we have stressed, they made a botch of getting the notes (the borrower IOU) into the trusts, and simple fixes don’t work, hence the need to create a phony document trail. The Bank of America suspension of foreclosures in all states appears to be a tacit admission that the problems are as pervasive as we have suggested.

 

This is huge, it is messy and could spell the death knell of “light touch regulation” for several generations. Too many people involved, too much gross and widespread fraud.

 

BTW, who do you think is about to have a field day and a very strong hand to play with right off the bat, and soon, hmmmm?

 

Elizabeth Warren, that’s who. It’ll be Hell on Earth for the banksters to try to deny the importance of ther work.

 

*evil grin*

Login or register to post comments by chinaguy
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:38
#636510

Pretty much fucks up my REO offer to BAC.

Login or register to post comments by straightershooter
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:53
#637186

Count yourself lucky and go out for celebration that you did not get the REO deal done.

A guy who got a REO in 2007 now can’t sell it because, all of a sudden out of nowhere, title insurers refuse to write the policy. No title insurance, no deal.

Whoever bought REO after 2007 is pretty much screwed up big time. Time to sue your title insurers, the seller banks, anyone and everyone to sort out the title problem before you sell. Otherwise, when the time comes for sell, you simply can’t close.

Login or register to post comments by bugs_
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:49
#636563

Remember from now on – Wells Fargo shows up at the party last.

Login or register to post comments by reading
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:56
#636930

Or, last one to try to get a chair???

Login or register to post comments by Mr Lennon Hendrix
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:58
#636682

Munger, Buffet, and Biden:  Buck up, suck it up, and shut up!

Login or register to post comments by zabaneh atashin
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:50
#636806

nothing but suffer

Login or register to post comments by John McCloy
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:08
#636837

What everyone may be missing is that if they title cannot be tracked down and the mortgage cannot be proven to be viable then this may allow precedent that permits mortgage holders to walk away from future obligation without a lien/judgement.
Esentially of those mortgages were not permissible because the title holders or majority title holders did not consent than we have thousands of invalid mortgages which means the “owner” can walk away and the money paid as mortgage can become a wash meaning they cannot be penalized.
Imagine thousands or foreclosed homes suddenly returning to the banks without being able to tie the holder to payments. Underwater holder walks away and rents without a credit hit since it was an invalid mortgage.
What I am trying to say to you is
“Can I sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for $1.00 or 4 million dollars if I am not the legal title holder or majority holder?”
Nope.
Can I walk away an consider payments made rent?
Likely.
Now banks are presented with an “asset” yielding no cash flow that cannot be sold and they now need to track down the other owners becaus of the wonders of securitizion. What a disease securitization has become.

Login or register to post comments by Prairie Rose
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:54
#637187

You are exactly right, John.  Frankly I wouldn’t take on any mortgage on an existing home right now.  You don’t know who actually owns it.  I heard a news clip on the radio today of BoA reassuring everyone that this little mess will be fixed in a few weeks–who are they kidding?  I think every single one of the TBTF banks is scared sh**less.

 

Caveat emptor if you’re buying!

Login or register to post comments by straightershooter
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:02
#637206

The one who sold the property without ownership right made the good faith buyer a loser with no right to resell the property.

What a fine mess we are in!! Scam title insurers and the stupidity of long-established property law! Scam Con Artist named Bank Securitizer? Sleepy regulators sleep while working!

 

Login or register to post comments by gwar5
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:32
#636884

That’s right Warren, you’ll have to suck it up and stop whining like the rest of now or you’ll hear from us in Omaha at the shareholders meeting.

BTW, how many billions have you committed to giving away so far? Rethink?

 

Login or register to post comments by xppt
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:50
#637181

More keeps coming out… day after day, week after week…. and the markets ramp.  Madoff and Stanford are in jail and the leaders of this country are still being treated with kid gloves? Why would anyone keep buying US debt at any price?  …all this …every worker saver and taxpayer screwed to the wall for at least 100 years… and not one shot fired…. yet.

Login or register to post comments by killben
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:23
#637386

Charlie Munger asked to suck it up and cope!

Blasphemy! Sucking it up an d coping is for ordinary mortals. For Charlie Munger there is Government and Fed’s tits waiting to feed him!!

 

 

Login or register to post comments by George Costanza
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 08:55
#637613

This mortgage mess is a technicality. There is no way the banking system will be allowed to take a major hit on this.  The laws can easily be changed, just like for the GM bankruptcy (bondholders screwed) or setting up Tarp and then using it for expanded purposes….  People living in homes and not paying their mortgage cannot win against banks, paperwork or no paperwork.   This reminds me of Y2K, non-issue.

Login or register to post comments by matthew1182
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:10
#637861

Completely agree.  Levin’s daily signature says all it needs to say:

“Trade well and follow the trend, not the so-called “experts.”

Behold the age of infinite moral hazard! On April 2nd, 2009 CONgress forced FASB to suspend rule 157 in favor of deceitful accounting for the TBTF banksters.””

That’s right, “infinite.”

Login or register to post comments by Silverstar
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:13
#637773

Well,

if they did not find a very tricky clue, this will be the end.

 

Most of all just think about the actual forclosures.

But the problem tracks back 10 years or more.

 

Everyone who bought an foreclosured House in the last 10 or more years is now in danger.

Will the original owner come back and ask for the ownership chain.

Are the documents still available ?

What will happen if the first one of those find a judge who give the House back to him.

Cause of the nonexistent documents of the real ownership situation ?

 

And even if this case will not happen. It is a huge damocles sword hanging over our heads.

We are not talking about those peanuts of 850 billions like that fantastic stimulus packet.

This is 3-4 numbers bigger and i mean BIGGER !!

 

Banks will not get any more payment for mortage credits if they can not track back who owns what part of wich credit.

No more forclosures, no more sellings of forclosured houses and maybe a lot of mess ahad with the already sold ones.

 

And no one can print them out of this mess.

Login or register to post comments by matthew1182
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:18
#637874

IOW we are at the beginning of an even bigger bubble–“The Attorney Bubble of the 2010s.” 

My 17 year old cousin has wanted to be an engineer for as long as I can remember.  Just recently, at our annual family day, he had a change of heart and mentioned that in light of all the fraud in capital markets, he now wants to be a lawyer. 

When the shoeshine boy/waiter/service sector employee catches on this, then the bubble will pop and we will go into chaos.  This will be my indicator for the beginning of the end of our civilization.  Until then, follow Levin’s words, don’t fall for the moral dogoodism loser games. 

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