Janet Tavakoli On The “Biggest Fraud In The History Of Capital Markets”

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Capital MarketsGoldman SachsJanet TavakoliTARP

In the following interview with the WaPo’s Ezra Klein, Janet Tavakoli shares some more information on why every bank is about to shut down all foreclosures, in what she calls the “biggest fraud in the history of capital markets.” Not very surprisingly, we are, so far, spot on in our 29th September projected timeline at this point: “We predict that within a week, all banks will halt every foreclosure currently in process. Within a month, all foreclosures executed within the past 2-3 years will be retried, and millions of existing home sales will be put in jeopardy.”

Ezra Klein: What’s happening here? Why are we suddenly faced with a crisis that wasn’t apparent two weeks ago?

Janet Tavakoli: This is the biggest fraud in the history of the capital markets. And it’s not something that happened last week. It happened when these loans were originated, in some cases years ago. Loans have representations and warranties that have to be met. In the past, you had a certain period of time, 60 to 90 days, where you sort through these loans and, if they’re bad, you kick them back. If the documentation wasn’t correct, you’d kick it back. If you found the incomes of the buyers had been overstated, or the houses had been appraised at twice their worth, you’d kick it back. But that didn’t happen here. And it turned out there were loan files that were missing required documentation. Part of putting the deal together is that the securitization professional, and in this case that’s banks like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, has to watch for this stuff. It’s called perfecting the security interest, and it’s not optional.

EK: And how much danger are the banks themselves in?

JT: When we had the financial crisis, the first thing the banks did was run to Congress and ask for accounting relief. They asked to be able to avoid pricing this stuff at the price where people would buy them. So no one can tell you the size of the hole in these balance sheets. We’ve thrown a lot of money at it. TARP was just the tip of the iceberg. We’ve given them guarantees on debts, low-cost funding from the Fed. But a lot of these mortgages just cannot be saved. Had we acknowledged this problem in 2005, we could’ve cleaned it up for a few hundred billion dollars. But we didn’t. Banks were lying and committing fraud, and our regulators were covering them and so a bad problem has become a hellacious one.

EK: My understanding is that this now pits the banks against the investors they sold these products too. The investors are going to court to argue that the products were flawed and the banks need to take them back.

JT: Many investors now are waking up to the fact that they were defrauded. Even sophisticated investors. If you did your due diligence but material information was withheld, you can recover. It’ll be a case-by-by-case basis.

EK: Given that our financial system is still fragile, isn’t that a disaster for the economy? Will credit freeze again?

JT: I disagree. In order to make the financial system healthy, we need to recognize the extent of our losses and begin facing the fraud. Then the market will be trustworthy again and people will start to participate.

EK: It sounds almost like you’re saying we still need to go through the end of our financial crisis.

JT: Yes, but I wouldn’t say crisis. This can be done with a resolution trust corporation, the way we cleaned up the S&Ls. The system got back on its feet faster because we grappled with the problems. The shareholders would be wiped out and the debt holders would have to take a discount on their debt and they’d get a debt-for-equity swap. Instead we poured TARP money into a pit and meanwhile the banks are paying huge bonuses to some people who should be made accountable for fraud. The financial crisis was a product of our irrational reaction, which protected crony capitalism rather than capitalism. In capitalism, the shareholders who took the risk would be wiped out and the debt holders would take a discount but banking would go on.

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by NOTW777
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:20
#635885

accountability in this system??  wow thats asking alot

Login or register to post comments by NOTW777
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:27
#635920

so, her conclusion: much of the housing and finance market is built on fraud

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:32
#635952

Shocking, no?

Login or register to post comments by NOTW777
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:25
#636186

might be for the general public that listens to MSM

Login or register to post comments by imapopulistnow
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:29
#636205

Her conclusion is that the evidence needed to prosecute this fraud is finally coming to the surface.

Login or register to post comments by Voodoo Economics
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:03
#636912

Now that all the top brASS at the various institutions have set up their partnership interests in the “spun out” prop trading desks –

IT IS TIME TO GET RID OF THE UP-TICK RULE AND REINSTATE THE MARK-TO-MARKET RULE (the rule that dumbass Markowitz drones begged for) for the banks, again, so that the masters of the universe can profit once again by shorting these dead banks, and the country can take care of the situation in an orderly manner.

Oh, yeah, since the SEC has taken care of the HFT CASE and issues (Ie. found and categorized the best porn sites on the internet) they should be able to make sure that there is no naked shorting to occur by the former “prop traders” that would improperly enhance their profits during this forced liquidation.

Login or register to post comments by hedgeless_horseman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:23
#637055

It is people like you that cause unrest.

I love it.  Thank you.

Login or register to post comments by Pondmaster
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 04:21
#637457

Meanwhile….. the shameless charlatans in Congress slip through a bill with no discussion, with NO MEDIA coverage . Why? To let the banks once again slide . If this is not enough evidence to the American sheeple that D.C. and its denizens ,to a man!, are not public enemy #1 , I don’t know what will wake us up . I pray November see an outright slaughter of these felons . I am for the first time grateful to our President for making one right decision on behalf of the American people . May the crooks who are robbing us receive 100 fold the grief they have placed on America .     

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:47
#636031

What? The housing and finance market is nothing but a fraud? Shocking news! Oh wait, we knew that all along since the 2008 crash. Why is this ‘news’ now?

Login or register to post comments by Assetman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:04
#636105

It’s not like Janet wasn’t talking fraud in the financial system months ago.

She’s just gained a larger audience, starting with the pension funds that are getting the #$%$#@ defrauded out of them.

We should thank our lucky stars someone as knowlegable Janet Tavakoli is parading this issue in the media.

Login or register to post comments by FEDbuster
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:30
#637305

William Black has said the same things.  He was lead man in cleaning up the S&Ls and needs to be brought back to clean up this mess. 

Login or register to post comments by B9K9
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:19
#636146

Actually, the whole entire system was founded upon wide-spread, systemic fraud dating back to 1694.

Riddle me this: What sovereign funds have never defaulted (since 1694)? Now for a hint: What sovereign empire wiped out the indigenous peoples of two separate continents, expropriated all their assets, and then promoted the largest emigration (ie land sales boom) in recorded history?

As an added bonus, what entity enslaved the peoples of another continent, subjugated yet another to cultivate the production of lethal drugs, and backed by military power, forced yet one more continental nation to allow dispensing the aforementioned drugs?

[Answer key: N America and Australia/NZ; Africa, India->Opium and Hong Kong/China.]

Now, putting aside the moral dimension for a moment, let us consider this issue strictly from a fundamental basis. To wit, if it took this much coercion, dare I say it, systemic fraud, to prop up a corrupt system of this magnitude and for this long, what happens when all the ‘economic’ bases that drove continuous inflation are removed and taken away? (Granted there have been significant dips, yet recall that the GB has never defaulted to date, so there really hasn’t been material deflation.)

I don’t think anyone really wants to know. What we are all going to eventually find out is what is the true value of any productive asset? (That is, what is income? What are expenses?) The level of chaos necessary to clear the back dated fraud is so immense as to (almost) understand why all jurisprudence has been cast aside in a mad attempt towards preventing collapse.

Janet is wrong in terms of the magnitude; housing was just the last straw of a very long cycle.

Login or register to post comments by B9K9
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:36
#636193

It is important to note that none of this history/information is a surprise to the power-elite. History isn’t complicated – age old biological drivers induce the same reactions in every generation, which is why the future is foretold for those who wish to see.

They also don’t dick around with PC. In fact, they’re the ones who promoted PC as a means of distracting others; ingenious, really. And lastly, they are well aware of resource depletion, environmental degradation and population overshoot. Anybody can conduct a 1 day experiment in a petri dish.

Add it up, and the power-elite know damn well if the last minute reflation attempts are unsuccessful, then this is going to be a 300 year old reset. Combine it with peak resources, and they don’t have to be told twice there is going to be an immense die-off of epic proportions.

So exactly what do you think they are doing to prepare? As the ship goes down and the sheep look out to see a few life boats bobbing on the seas, will they finally recognize they were played the entire time?

Login or register to post comments by RichardENixon
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:41
#636256

So are you saying this is a buying opportunity, or would you advise going short?

Login or register to post comments by faustian bargain
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:05
#636938

lol

Login or register to post comments by razorthin
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:58
#637015

when is a bull a lemming?

Login or register to post comments by scaleindependent
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:55
#636674

Correct B9, but you may have to agree that never before has their fury been laser focused on their own middle class as it is now.

Previously they dined on third world countries, practicing large-scale international usury, but tell me a previous time where the meat and potatoes was the regular American?

Login or register to post comments by jeff montanye
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:25
#637378

have you forgotten “the forgotten man”?  1840’s, 1870-1900, 1930’s, for example.  the deflationary depressions.

Login or register to post comments by nicholforest
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 05:21
#637472

The middle class are redundent – replaced by drones, robots, stuxnet and assorted off-shore dark factories.

As the educated voice of the media they need to be removed and are now the target.

Welcome to economic feudalism – aux armes!

Login or register to post comments by tony bonn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:00
#636687

your analysis is not junk….it is excellent insight…keep writing..

Login or register to post comments by Calmyourself
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:37
#636979

Ok, I’ll bite for all those here of my newbie persuasion, what then are they doing to prepare?  “So exactly what do you think they are doing to prepare?”

Login or register to post comments by jeff montanye
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:33
#637392

selling paper assets (check out corporate control insiders buy/sell ratio), buying gold (in some actual cases by the ton) and moving it “to another location” (recent quotation from a swiss private banker).  likely some food and energy futures positions.  others can speculate further and i invite them to do so.

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 02:06
#637422

Buying land in certain land locked and sparsely inhabited S. American countries?

Devouring web trafic data?

Manipulating the weather?

I dunno?  What else?

-54 – -66 = twelve.

 

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:27
#637988

Bringin it

A special thought for you. Comment around 470

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:40
#637162

B9BK – Your posts are excellent, yet I see this one got 6 junks.  WTF?

Thanks.

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:41
#637250

Good to see you here Bringin it. many hate the truth, run from it. Silly me in a crowded waiting room my big mouth runs, some laugh, then i pop the question ” any of you folks prepared for hyperinflation this winter? have you got your food stocked? 6 or 7 people, each turned to stone of a sudden. Not a word said after.

Folks in the gulf are in the denial about the “flue ” they have. bleeding from the anus is embarrassing and frightening. media blackout on the issue.

911 . definetively a well executed demolition any demo contractor would be proud of.It took a lot of balls to set the charges and very poor morals to set it off while full of people , one person pushed that button.

3 x.

And we still want to believe the muslims did it. Denial.

Lord , i feel alone in my hood and i done a bunch to wake folks up.

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:29
#637299

Hi MH.  Jim Willie’s saying first responders found bodies in closets and lockers while the demo was underway.  The assassins killing off the assassins to contain the loose lips potential.

It is impossible to over come the brain washing of the vast majority at the kool-aide trough.  Almost all my family members are in denial.  Only after a few more aspects of the disaster take effect will they realize them and theirs are in serious danger.  Based on the blatant stupidity displayed to date, who knows where the enraged mob will turn/ be directed to vent their rage.

Mako says no one gets out alive.  I don’t know.  My solution is to keep some distance until the dust settles.  Maybe you should consider same?  How’s the garden coming along?  I think everyone should grow their own … food. 

Chok Dee Pee.  /Good Luck Bro.

 

 

Login or register to post comments by Shylockracy
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 05:15
#637470

Had the Rothschild ruffians followed their initial plans and invaded Argentina instead of Palestine, the so-called ‘War on Terror’ would be against Gauchos, not Muslims.

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:38
#637497

Getting as far away as the rest of the nutbag horde is about as best you can do while bound to this floating rock.

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:02
#637631

Run away and hide? Fuck that. Go from living inside a civilized society to eating MRE’s and sleeping with one eye open? No doctors, no re-supply, nothing … but extended survival? Again, fuck that. 

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:32
#638001

 

 

 

Comment 470 on this thread is for you.

Login or register to post comments by decon
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:49
#637324

Yep, same thing happens to yeast in a petri dish, and the same principles are involved in both circumstances.

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:54
#637327

I see from the number of junks that the truth is painful to many. Sad to see here, though. Keep it up, B9.

Login or register to post comments by WaterWings
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 02:49
#637438

+1

Merci.

Login or register to post comments by uno
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:12
#637960

Speaking of peak resources.

 

Planet Earth has to do it’s own reset.  Just thinking about the depletion of the ocean resources due to population growth:

Massive overfishing for multiple generations, drift nets

great pacific ocean plastic dump  http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm

other waste ending up in the oceans (human waste, soap, fuel from boats, ships, oil spills, acid rain) 

 

Add in the increasing protein demands from China and India, there is probably only another generation or 2 before a collapse of the ocean food chain (from all the toxins/overfishing).

 

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:34
#638005

 

 

 

 

 

Comment 470 is for you

Login or register to post comments by uno
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:53
#638055

Comments are continuously being added, so 470 is only at point in time.  There is such a thing as a number next to the comment, perhaps you could try that, or perhaps you could formulate a reasonable reply.

Login or register to post comments by Pope Clement
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:32
#636475

Always can count on b9 to keep one focused on the longer view – 1694 BOE Bitchez “Hath benefit of interest on all the moneys which it, the bank creates out of nothing.” E.P. Canto XLVI

Login or register to post comments by PeterB
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:48
#636557

This whole crisis surrounding the USD wreaks of the Red Shields “Battle of Waterloo” English bonds sting. Only the fashions have changed. I’m sure they are quietly collecting all of this debased currency in anticipation of its unexpected metamorphosis & resurrection.

Login or register to post comments by tip e. canoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:46
#636541

God Save the Queen

Login or register to post comments by pamriallc
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:53
#636579

hardly— not fraud.  just that people got caught up in the processing and became lazy.  this still doesn’t justify people scamming their way out of paying a mortgage payment because 1/200th of their mortgage wasn’t papered correctly.  that’s why Janet isn’t jumping on everyone’s bandwagon.

Login or register to post comments by scaleindependent
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:56
#636639

Fake summons, fake signatures, fake docs, bought off AG, and judges = 1/200th of paperwork.

LOL!!!

Dude, post your checking acct number and routing number and I will show you a measly 1/200th error!

Come on. You chicken?

Login or register to post comments by still kicking
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:18
#636732

man go to hell, if that’s as far as your can use your reasoning just shut the fuck up and watch it all unfold.  I’m so sick of that damn argument.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:06
#636907

You should be nicer, but it is getting old, isn’t it?  Where are all these people coming from?  Day after day after day . . .

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:24
#637297

By the banks of de-nile, of course!

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:30
#637306

The Ponzi has deep pockets full of fresh FRNs.

Login or register to post comments by Mercury
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:11
#637483

Well what is going to happen to all those home owners whose mortgage titles were fraudulently handled?  Should they really be hitting the “free house” lottery after putting 1% down on a McMansion they could never hope to pay off?  Where’s my free house? Who do you think is ultimately going to cover the loss on the bad mortgage?

I’ll give you a hint: it rhymes with shmackshmayer.

Login or register to post comments by ColonelCooper
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 07:11
#637505

You really DON’T get the bigger picture here do you?  Or perhaps not even the little picture either?

Login or register to post comments by Waterfallsparkles
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:44
#638033

I think the Banks are making money on Forclosures.  They get the Insurance thru MGIC and FHA.  They then cash in on their Credit Default Swaps.  For the Banks Forclosures are a Money Maker.

Login or register to post comments by unwashedmass
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:32
#635951

 

yeah, dream on Janet…like Lloyd or Jamie is going to jail, much less paying back their bonuses….

right.

Login or register to post comments by Milestones
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:15
#636147

No, but a bullet in the head gets more and more plausable as this thing gets exposed to some sunlight. Remember there are 11,000,000 underwater homes now and more on the horizon. That is one hellva lot of very pissed people if Mr. “O” decides to broom it under the rug.

All it takes is a few.      Milestones

Login or register to post comments by B9K9
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:42
#636268

Hence the law of return. But what they’re going to find out is that regular Israelis are very much like the American middle-class. A thirty-something Israeli who has done his time in the service, and has had to deal with the same BS day-in/day-out, will not have any affection for troglodytic gnomes like Bernanke, Blankfein, et al. So I’m not sure they are going to be safe even over there.

Login or register to post comments by scaleindependent
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:50
#636663

Correct,

What the elite really fear is innsurrrection.  French, American, Russian, German and other revolutions are fought to the death by them.

This is why America has  assigned herself as fighter of all insurrections since the late 19th century. Central America, Bolivia, Vietnam, etc.

Login or register to post comments by Goldfinger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:26
#636751

I am trying to catch up on my history, but from what I go so far…. They have started,financed all the revolutions  in europe… Might want to double check…

Login or register to post comments by pyite
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:34
#636609

yeah, dream on Janet…like Lloyd or Jamie is going to jail, much less paying back their bonuses….

This is the wrong thing to focus on – the government needs to do what is best for the country as a whole macro-economically.  Of course, people who committed crimes deserve prison time.  But there are always people who get away with it.

Login or register to post comments by macholatte
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:31
#636766

the government needs to do what is best for the country

 

for that you might need to go back to, say 1787.

 

Login or register to post comments by UncleFester
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:44
#637080

Screw the whole and screw macro, they need to enforce the Constitution and return sovereignty back to the individuals.  That will be what is best for the ‘country’, because the rest will then take care of itself.

Login or register to post comments by DaveyJones
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:27
#637145

“the government needs to do what is best for the country…of course, people who committed crimes deserve prison time”

how will they all fix the place from the pen?

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:09
#637959

in agreement with Bk and Mako, i think they have to kill us because we know too much and they are more blatant  now because they see us as already dead since their plan is in place. Geez, i hope i am wrong.

Login or register to post comments by unwashedmass
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:32
#635953

 

yeah, dream on Janet…like Lloyd or Jamie is going to jail, much less paying back their bonuses….

right.

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:17
#636152

A very small thing could shift the entire paradigm, such as a small group of americans that have had well past enough showing up and staging a big bank hostage situation, prepared to go the full distance. Would make for some very bad TV PR.

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:40
#636899

But good TV ratings.

Login or register to post comments by 11b40
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:14
#637676

Nope.  Not for long, anyway.  The 5 major corps who own the news would cut off the coverage.

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:34
#638008

Sure, the peeps who brought you Balloon Boy will show restraint…uh huh.

Login or register to post comments by Cathartes Aura
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:25
#637144

rather late in the season for a Dog Day Afternoon. . .

“Attica! Attica! Attica!”

Login or register to post comments by Dan The Man
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:31
#637493

Do the deadbeats get their houses back?

Login or register to post comments by sushi
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:20
#635888

Did the WashPo run this or just pigeonhole it?

Login or register to post comments by Azannoth
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:38
#635891

Own Gold!

Gold prices would have to go up 20x to get anywhere near the historical average

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:29
#635893

EK: It sounds almost like you’re saying we still need to go through the end of our financial crisis.

JT: Yes, but I wouldn’t say crisis. This can be done with a resolution trust corporation, the way we cleaned up the S&Ls. The system got back on its feet faster because we grappled with the problems. The shareholders would be wiped out and the debt holders would have to take a discount on their debt and they’d get a debt-for-equity swap. Instead we poured TARP money into a pit and meanwhile the banks are paying huge bonuses to some people who should be made accountable for fraud. The financial crisis was a product of our irrational reaction, which protected crony capitalism rather than capitalism. In capitalism, the shareholders who took the risk would be wiped out and the debt holders would take a discount but banking would go on.

 

I really like this option, though we may be too far along.

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:38
#635981

I was going to comment on this particular statement she made, so…

I disagree that “banking would go on”. 1 quadrillion of global derivatives. EU banking system on the edge. Banks already effectively insolvent. Economy is weak. Dissatisfaction is high. This problem was created because the banks didn’t do their jobs.

This will be the straw that broke the camel’s back. Hundred’s of billions of dollars will be lost and this will accelerate the deflationary spiral (into the hyper-inflationary abyss). 

Oh, and the biggest fraud in the history of the capital markets was either (1) Mako’s point that the banks don’t actually lend anything out; or (2) Congress granted a monopoly in money creation to a privately-held company. 

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:44
#636011

Seems to me that in this case both 1) and 2) are essentially true, with the current mess being its natural outcome. 

Login or register to post comments by B9K9
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:54
#636338

Like KD, Mako is finally getting his due. A few months ago people would junk him simply because they didn’t understand the point he was making every time he posted up a Z1 report.

As to point #1, it doesn’t matter if it’s a gold back system or pure fiat. The nut is the compound nature of principal+interest. Fiat just moved the game to a whole new level of abstraction. That is, money/credit was completely disconnected from reality as a means of exercising even greater control.

As to point #2, the Fed is just a junior version of the BoE. The Dutch (ahem, power-elite) brought over their banking expertise (fractional reserve lending) developed from bankrupting Spain* to GB in 1690. They have had a marvelous, wonderfully long run.

Too bad it’s all finally coming to an end.

*If anyone wants a good example of the power of exponents, how is it that the country which controlled access to the world’s most extensive gold & silver resources repeatedly defaulted as a result of failing to make payments to (paper) money lenders?

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:42
#636470

Don’t tell Karl any of that, I guess someone sent him what I have written and he keeps talking about convincing a judge.  I wouldn’t even know why you want to convince a judge of anything.  His lack of understanding is mindblowing on this subject. 

All he has to do is read the Fed book on all this. Of course, he will go and talk to lawyers and such, oh the same lawyers that claim they have standing even though they are not a holder in due course and are in fact DEBT COLLECTORS under the statutory laws of the United States. 

And if the holder in due course does show up, which is very unlikely if not impossible in most situation, well, they are going to have to show a lose on the original contract.  Oh shit really!  Oh crap, what’s that stamp on the note and what account was it put in and why?  Oh shit get me out of here.

“However that may be, a plaintiff cannot convert a claim of damages for breach of contract into an equitable claim by the facile trick of asking that the defendant be enjoined from refusing to honor its obligation to pay the plaintiff what the plaintiff is owed under the contract and appending to that request a request for payment of the amount owed. A claim for money due and owing under a contract is “quintessentially an action at law.”  HYPERLINK “http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=602&SerialNum=1996142036&FindType=Y&ReferencePositionType=S&ReferencePosition=516&AP=&RS=WLW2.91&VR=2.0&SV=Split&MT=Westlaw&FN=_top” \t “_top” Hudson View II Associates v. Gooden, 222 A.D.2d 163, 644 N.Y.S.2d 512, 516 (1996); see also  HYPERLINK “http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=708&SerialNum=1977118754&FindType=Y&AP=&RS=WLW2.91&VR=2.0&SV=Split&MT=Westlaw&FN=_top” \t “_top” Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Comm’n, 430 U.S. 442, 459, 97 S.Ct. 1261, 51 L.Ed.2d 464 (1977).”

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Associates’ Health and Welfare Plan v. Wells 213 F 3d 398, 401

Login or register to post comments by DaveyJones
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:39
#637159

Mako, I was talking about your posts today with a contract lawyer in my office who I think is a pretty sharp guy, we debated it around for a while until he said “Oh shit”

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:13
#637485

Humans have been using the same scheme over and over for 1000s of years.  Yes, eventually there is going to be a worldwide OH SHIT.

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:36
#638012

 

 

 

 

 

comment 470 is for you

Login or register to post comments by Vernon Wormer
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:43
#637320

I am in your debt for the education. Thank you.

Login or register to post comments by jeff montanye
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 02:00
#637416

to b9k9 re: how spain with all its gold and silver defaulted to the dutch who had almost no natural resources but diligence and enough jews/freethinkers to lend money at interest:  the most common (but not necessarily right) answer is that the spanish aristocracy was utterly averse to commerce and industry as the great commercial era was being born.  they were not traders or entrepreneurs; they were land owners and military officers whose taste for luxury outran even el dorado.  kind of like how there’s a thriving business tracking lottery winners who pick annual payment so that eighteen months after the win the winners can be offered a lump sum present value of their future payments at an !8% discount rate to bail them out of debt after they bought bass boats for the entire town they live in. 

Login or register to post comments by WaterWings
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 02:56
#637440

As had been brought up before, mass murder keeps the gears greased.

Login or register to post comments by Snake
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:35
#638003

also, the gold and silver stolen or mined with slave labor (from, among other places Potosi) ended up in the dutch and italian banks, Amsterdam, Genova, Venezia, Florence, London, etc.) to pay for the armies fighting 1. the wars of religion in the north, 2. the Ottoman empire in the east, 3. arabs and the last remnants of the moorish strongholds in the south and 4. the wars of conquest in the west.

Login or register to post comments by faustian bargain
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:11
#636945

A few months ago people would junk him simply because they didn’t understand the point he was making every time he posted up a Z1 report.

No, people would junk him simply because he was being a condescending jerk.

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:53
#637259

i junked Mako twice for lack of empathy. (Edit=but not recently or today.)

“billions will die” was a recurring remark without any explanations of how you Mako arrived at that. I like honesty, but hate if you tell me i am fucked but not the “why of it. Still Mako and Bk9 , bringing it and ms creant are my favorite posters. you all bring a lot to this final greatest show on earth.

Thank you very much for solid answers during this curious time

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:40
#637317

Look at what happened to Haiti (and is STILL going on!) after the natural disaster of an earthquake — contrast that with a different earthquake in Chile.  Think all those folks on Food Stamps and UE are gonna get busy and pick themselves up, or are they gonna wait for “someone” to bail them out of their miserable situation?

Choice 1:  Wait around for the US Govt to provide famine relief to L.A., etc or,

Choice 2: Start fighting your neighbors for what food scraps can be found.

Either choice means death and destruction in EVERY large city in the US, and probably the World, since after the dollar collapses, every other paper currency will follow!  Paper currency, no matter how many zeroes are on it and how pretty the picture is, is still worth only $85/Ton.  Like Gold, you cannot eat it either!  The only thing holding up the current Economic system is “FAITH” in the currency, capiche?

If “empathy” is something you value, I suggest you do what you can to save the people around you for as long as you can!  I would dearly love to be an optimist at this point, but my knowledge of Mathematics and expotential functions says that optimism is not gonna carry the day for long!

Login or register to post comments by Hephasteus
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 01:48
#637403

Yep. He would call people unfunded liabilities and talk about how hitler was a good liquidator.

I don’t think he’s a jerk because I sort of have done what he did. Became the monster to think like the monster. You don’t really know how they think till you shut off all concern for other peoples good will. Then things start clicking.

They are welcome to have their reality and be what they have chosen to be. I can be transformed into it but it won’t stick. I can’t keep that way and remain that way. There’s no reason to co-create with them if there is no concern for your reality and they simply force you to live in theres. Sometimes you gotta take the snake and drop him off in the woods and drive off. No matter how cold it seems. See ya at galactic center. Plenty of planets. Nothing says you have to stay miserable.

Login or register to post comments by WaterWings
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:06
#637442

A Cherokee Legend

 

Often times young boys were sent from the village in search of a vision. This was the case of one particular young native boy.

 

He started to go up to the top of a mountain in search of his vision. And as he climbed up the mountain, the air got cooler and cooler. And he came upon a snake laying in the path. The snake was shivering, and said to the boy. “Please help me. I can’t move, I am so cold that I can no longer make it any further down the mountain.”

 

The boy said to the snake “No way! You’re a snake, if I pick you up, you’ll bite me!” The snake replied. “No, no I won’t, I promise I won’t bite you if you’ll only pick me up and help get me down the mountain.”

 

So the young boy picked up the snake, put him in his shirt, and continued climbing to the top of the mountain in search of his vision. When he got back down to the bottom of the mountain, he reached in, took out the snake, and the snake bit the young boy.

 

The boy replied to the snake “Hey! You bit me, you said that if I’d help you out, that you wouldn’t bite me!”

 

The snake replied “But you knew what I was when you picked me up!”

 

http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheLittleBoyAndTheRattlesnake-Cherokee.html

Login or register to post comments by Deflation
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:01
#637203

I like Mako’s theories.. but he did say total market credit debt on the z1, wouldn’t go up anymore.. and it did this quarter.

I agree in the end a total collapse will happen, but I believe a currency crisis and hyperinflation will happen first.

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:44
#637499

It did go up, never said it would not go up, no I don’t think you will see big movement from here on out…. that is the job of Benny, to get all of you guys to believe in Helicopters.   Whether you agree with what the government and Benny have done… what they did was successful in slowing the rate of the decline, in time it will pick up again.  Are you still in a death spiral, I would say Yes.

There is actually a good chance the number doesn’t collapse going forward for awhile, they are stopping foreclosures which would stop the banks from writing down.

 

Login or register to post comments by Rusty_Shackleford
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:57
#636070

Points (1) and (2) are actually two sides of the same “fraud coin”.

 

‘Tis Death to Counterfeit

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:14
#636142

International Private Central Banking:
http://freedocumentaries.org/teatro.php?filmID=243&lan=en&size=medium
 
Fractional Reserve Banking:
Money As Debt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanOXoWl0kc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTv1fo6sKmo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qicabStQkc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kpSbkaD4tM&feature=related
 
 
Money As Debt II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doYllBk5No&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp7tiySCyb4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG7Jjb0cw9o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-O_yGEI_0U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MwHgpFSQMo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH1M1QaM6SY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GH4OElpZtM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqeTComdm5A&feature=related

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:47
#637322

‘Tis Death to Counterfeit

Unfortunately, MOST think that this is a man-made Law, but as future events will PROVE, it’s a NATURAL LAW!  Money HAS TO BE REAL, simply because there are too many people on the planet for everyone to do all that it takes to survive by themselves!  Division of labor requires a REAL medium of exchange and COUNTERFEIT money is NOT REAL (in the long run)!

Reagan said it best:  “Trust, but verify.”  Which is why people used to bite Gold coins.  They were verifying the REALITY of the Gold content!

Login or register to post comments by Troy Ounce
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:32
#636477

 

Right: too far, too late:

She only talks about a tiny part of the big problem which is an overall corrupted system and too much debt.There is no way Congress will ever allow a trust corporation. Their corrupt role might come to light also. In order to avoid mayhem and civil war the only way to regain overall trust will be:

abolish the fedstop manipulating markets; do less instead of moreintroduce a gold/silver based monetary standardgo after the corrupted

Now how much chance would you give that?

0.0000001%?

 

Login or register to post comments by StychoKiller
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:52
#637323

TPTB would rather see the collapse of the system than give up their grip on Power!  This is why I chose the picture of George Washington from the book “Dreams Come Due, Government and Economics as if Freedom Mattered” by John Galt (ISBN: 0-671-61159-3).  The Dreams of the Socialist/Progressives will come due — I only hope that they’re closer to Ground Zero than I am!

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:25
#637982

from their point of view, the banksters view, WAR is the answer.

THEY are in power, they have control of the vertical and horizontal,

you/we are toast, we just havent been fully baked yet but the twilight zone allready is. Not far to go now.

Login or register to post comments by QQQBall
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:12
#637037

We’re not too far along, it would however require the polis to admit they vaporized a zillion dollars. The RTC was not perfect, but it was pretty “quick” and it did cleanse the system in a reasonable amount of time… Again, not saying it was perfect.. BTW, the FDIC contracted out their appraisal management on CRE this time around….

Login or register to post comments by cossack55
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:23
#635896

Looks like Floyd the Barber is going to be busy.

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:32
#635956

Don’t worry, Deputy Fife is on the case.

Login or register to post comments by crosey
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:33
#636484

But he’ll need more than one bullet.

Login or register to post comments by aheady
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:51
#636047

Otis is gonna have some company!

Login or register to post comments by bugs_
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:24
#635898

Banks take back those toxic mortgages.

Take back Vanessa Redgrave
Take back Joe Piscopo
Take back Eddie Murphy
Give ’em all some place to go

Login or register to post comments by williambanzai7
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:26
#635901

Yes she is absolutely right. The banks ran a scam on both ends of the candle, the borrowers who were duped into thinking leveraged drunkenness was the new normal, and the sophisticated morons who got duped into thinking default risk and paper fraud somehow magically dissappeared and obviates the need for due diligence. They should all get flushed down the same sewer.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:38
#635949

Wait!

Doesn’t the fresh water intake for the water treatment plant draw from the same river the sewer system flushes into? And wasn’t the intake deliberately placed down river from the sewer to keep everyone from flushing this fraud down the sewer system, the implicit threat being that to do so would poison ourselves?

WB7, how about some art to illustrate this concept?

Login or register to post comments by williambanzai7
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:58
#636076

You read my mind…But in the meantime you can proudly display this redesigned patriotic emblem wherever you like:

dtm

Login or register to post comments by SheepDog-One
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:29
#636157

I wish we could at least UN-junk some of these morons who are junking. Give us a vote to the contrary? If not thumbs up tabs, at least a null ability? I dont understand just the option to junk something.

Login or register to post comments by Ripped Chunk
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:07
#636381

Really. The anonymous junk squad has gotten extremely old.   

Login or register to post comments by Ripped Chunk
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:20
#636736

Thanks

Login or register to post comments by chindit13
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:39
#636983

Life ain’t fair.  The Universe isn’t symetrical.  Why hold ZH to a higher standard?

Login or register to post comments by ToNYC
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:51
#637091

 

Stand Up and Junk with your handle.

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:44
#637168

I would like to see a link to junks by handle to further expose the Ponzi trolls.

Login or register to post comments by WaterWings
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:08
#637443

Monthly junk stats…

Login or register to post comments by Hedge Jobs
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 05:42
#637474

and i wish i lived in jellyland where everything is transparent and wobbly so i would never have to wonder what was around the corner or hurt myself on sharp edges.

if a post has recieved no “junks’ consider that to mean people either agree or it dosnt make them angry enough to junk it. its not really that hard to understand SD1. ZH is not a popularity contest  

Login or register to post comments by DollarMenu
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:22
#636176

Cool flag refresh.

I can’t believe you got a ‘junk’ for this.

I wish we had an up and down set of counters.

Login or register to post comments by williambanzai7
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:06
#636376

Its Lloyd Blankfein, I have my suspicions about his avatar/name

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:56
#637269

anyone seen Bravo? teenjunkie got a busy finger

Login or register to post comments by 1100-TACTICAL-12
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:45
#636285

Cool…

Login or register to post comments by Ripped Chunk
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:07
#636383

+ 1000

Login or register to post comments by benb
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:11
#636944

Very tasteful….Made my day!

Login or register to post comments by FEDbuster
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:38
#637311

Another t-shirt project, thanks William.  Maybe I can make “People of Walmart” with this one?

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:40
#638023

 

 

 

 

A special warm fuzzy for you in comment 470 on this thread.

Login or register to post comments by Husk-Erzulie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:05
#637852

This is the classic sentence of the piece… Many investors now are waking up to the fact that they were defrauded. Even sophisticated investors.  Love the flag Banzai.

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:28
#635903

The fraud started the day the ink was dry on the supposed mortgage that was never given but is claimed was given by the bank.  She is incorrect. 

Banks do not give mortgages!!!!!!!!  Banks do not lend their own credit.  No loan was given. 

Once the sheeple figure out the Truth oh boy they are not going to be happy, it’s been like since the beginning of civilization.   All you guys are money changers, it’s not going to end well for any of you.

Login or register to post comments by Eureka Springs
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:29
#635927

Any way you can do a post (or two or three)? What you’ve been saying so clearly needs a link to go with it!

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:39
#635962

Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve. 

Heck, I would say a banker would be dumb if he didn’t try to resell the non-existent mortgage back to the same stupid lemming that thinks he/she received a loan from the bank. 

This world is one big ass Greek comedy that is going to go up in a mushroom cloud.  It’s like a Seinfeld show.

Login or register to post comments by Assetman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:13
#636141

Ah yes… the Seinfeld “Show About Nothing”.  Haven’t seen it. 😉

On a little more serious note, Mako… you are one of the smartest guys on the ZH block, but I have a curiosity-type question:

Have you read any critiques of “Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve”?  And if so, what are they? 

If there is no mortgage, is there no debtor?  Or creditor?

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:42
#636200

There is an obligation if a loan is given.  No loan is given no obligation can exist under your agreement.  You will see on your mortgage docs saying you received a loan and now you have an obligation. 

Obligation is statutory defined in Title 12 CFR.

The Promissory Note is a promise to  pay a loan servicer, generally presumed to be the holder in due course, a  monthly payment every thirty days over the amortization period of the Obligation.

Of course, you don’t ask for what does not exist, you challenge standing of the party to bring such action. The lawful question is to substantiate that the loan servicer does not have legal standing to command the Trustee to execute the Deed of Trust.

All these banks and attorney for the banks are completely wrong it is the job of the defendant to force them back to their dark hole.

No mortgage was given, so exactly how did they get equity in your house with no money?

 

Login or register to post comments by tomdub_1024
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:31
#636966

after reading (to the best of my non-lawyer understanding, shit, php/.NET/java error messages are easier to decode than legal-ease) Title 12 CFR…and your other posts…I think it is becoming clear…

the sickening realization that YET AGAIN, all I have been taught and thought I knew is a frakkin’ lie.

Its like being raped by the man your wife cheated on you with and left you for…

Blinders off…the “red” pill is a harsh mistress…

The Matrix was too real a metaphor, how did it get past the PTB? Their sadistic proclivities, to mind-fuck the ones that can think it through?

Fuck me, I am so close to just not giving a shit anymore, why bother?

 

 

ok, that feeling will pass, I don’t quit…

Login or register to post comments by tomdub_1024
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:57
#637012

I guess I now know, cognitively, cerebrally and viscerally, the Buddhist concept of Maya (illusion).

Damned red pill…..

Login or register to post comments by WaterWings
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:29
#637451

Johnny Liberty – The Global Sovereign’s Handbook

Reclaiming individual sovereignty and establishing the principles of constitutional republics along with the unalienable rights of self-determination is our most important endeavor today.

Summary of content:

Reclaiming the American Mind
American and World History
American Citizenship
American Law
Commercial Law
International Law
Terrorism
Money
Bankruptcy
Individual Sovereignty
Indigenous Sovereignty
Sovereign Power Structures
Global Sovereignty Movement
Social Security and Income
Taxes
Visions and Solutions
Introductory and Advanced Tools for Freedom
Restoring a Republic
Freedom Technologies
New World Order

Johnny_Liberty___The_Global_Sovereign_s_Handbook.pdf

(slow download at first)

Login or register to post comments by WaterWings
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:30
#637452

To Mend

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:52
#637184

Mako – I have to admit, this was a revelation to me.

No mortgage was given, so exactly how did they get equity in your house with no money?

Thanks for your efforts at educating.

I avoid the worst aspects of The Ponzi, by having no mortgage, no debt, no credit card, no checking account, no bills, no insurance.  I value my freedom, such as it is.

I wish everyone would/could disengage as well.

 

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:12
#637283

Ah , Bringin it, i too have downsized. My ego still has bruises from selling my truck. No more tags, fees, licenses for business either. Only bill left is cable, gas, electric. I wont need to shop for a long , long time.

5.00 in my account since a year ago. This year i gave the veggies. Next year i will trade for them and sell what i create in my shop. Silver art work thats wearable should do well, food even better. I changed my lifestyle to sit the times. Anyone seeing me would see an unkempt unshaven rag picker.

Often love is dressed in rags

like a beggar carrying a jewel

hiding its brilliance only to those

who look at the beggars  rags

and do not see in his eyes

their own reflection

1973 , when i woke up to illusion

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:17
#637447

MH – interesting about the silver jewelry.  That sounds like a good idea if you are blessed with talent, but remaining unkept may restrict your customer base amigo 😉  People try to sell me sterling silver Ruppee coins from the Raj all the time.  They look to be about 1 oz. and the going price is $15.

Do you ever think about brewing beer?  Don’t they grow hops near you?

Login or register to post comments by merehuman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:35
#638011

I did grow something that stinks when lit up. Lol. I shower, keep clean. But hair on face hides the well fed look a bit. Going barefoot feels great. The overall picture i created at my place is that there is nothing here to steal but the garden produce. Image is everything to most.

Login or register to post comments by bankonzhongguo
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:26
#637712

Mako, I deeply appreciate your work in this department.  However, I have been in court on this stuff a lot and despite all the theory of standing, mortgages and debt; the bank did at some point in this whole process wire transfer money from their account to the seller’s account at a third party title company for the benefit of the “buyer-debtor.”  Whether all the paperwork is “wrong” it seems to be that people would not been allowed to enter and alive inside one of these subject foreclosed homes unless “their” bank paid some money on their behalf.  I do not think it matters where the money came from or how it got in the bank possession – the bank paid money out and you got to live in the home.  Even if all the “contracts” are wrong; resold, no notary, “wet ink”, missing documents, no loan app, etc.  Money was paid, accepted and people moved in.

I would love to set fire to the recorder offices and punch these bankers and BOD in the face, but I can’t see some human avalanche of debt forgiveness.  I have argued for a long time, since 2008, that there should be a macro mark down of mortgages. But I don’t see the courts helping the little guy going forward.

Login or register to post comments by B9K9
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:50
#637830

I’m of two minds regarding your post. My initial reaction is that people who are as clueless as you appear to be should remain quiet and continue to read/learn. The other is that your post serves as a foil for whomever wishes to spend the necessary 5 seconds in which to correct your erroneous conclusions.

The “money” that was “wired” is a complete fiction. The “money” was first created by simultaneously debiting assets (mortgage loan) and crediting liabilities (checking deposit) at a specific originating bank. Bank accounts are essentially open books which are reconciled each day between inter-bank members. That means the original phantom check amount is recognized as an offsetting asset when deposited at another bank ie your so-called “money wire”.

It’s a closed system where each bank agrees to cover the fraud committed by others – IOW, RICO writ large. There’s only one nit – it was all made intentionally legal back in 1913. So which statute has priority?

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:59
#637946

It’s not only the “spell” of “money” that has so blinded most people to what’s going on, but all the supporting illusions that appear to make this entire charade “real”. For so many people, to seriously question this “reality” would require that they question everything they think they know and believe in.

Since the illusion begins with our own acceptance of the illusion, all these questions will eventually lead back to ourselves. It’s simply too much for many, thus they fight to remain safely within the Matrix.

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:43
#638030

 

 

 

 

Please

allow me to disabuse you of a few illusions. Comment 470 on this thread.

Login or register to post comments by Jean Valjean
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:44
#636279

Well assetman, you tried, with a treat for Mako’s huge ego, but he still did not answer your questions did he.

Hey Mako, is owning gold still a futile endevor?

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:51
#636312

I actually have some gold and silver, bought between 2000-2001 but I don’t add to my position.  I see nothing wrong with holding some gold or silver or chicken wire or seed or fuel or whatever you might want to collect.  It’s not going to stop the final conclusion.  The chaos will eventually start and the tanks will be rolling, the tanks crush everyone no matter if they have gold, silver or lint in their pocket. 

BTW I did answer him. 

I have no huge issues with the Modern Money Mechanics.

Login or register to post comments by Apocalicious
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:50
#636660

But no war has ever completely enveloped 100% of the habitable global ecosystem. If I am to accept that the tanks will start rolling is in fact an inevitable outcome (fine, I concede that point), I still do not accept the correct response is do nothing. Frankly, I am in complete agreement that the system is too far gone to correct. Things grow, mature, then die. We will too, and ex post, our history will be a relatively short one compared with the great empires. But if in fact the tanks will roll, does it still not make sense to invest in things that might get you out of the way of the tanks when they come through? Throughout history, this is what the survivors have done. Gold works for this as well. Buy your way out. (One could also argue that Hummers, lots of gasoline, a private jet, a private island stocked with several years of food, etc. would also be good investments in that end game scenario. Or a big network of contacts from which you may call an Oskar Schindler in time of need.) Not that such things are easy, or perhaps even possible for most, but I merely argue that your conclusions regarding “nothing matters at the end” are not de facto logical extensions of your expected scenario analysis. There are in fact, things one can do.

Login or register to post comments by chindit13
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:25
#637057

Like crawl under your school desk in the event of a nuclear attack.

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:57
#637194

chindit, you are being cheeky.  I think you see a way through for your own-self.

Login or register to post comments by ToNYC
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:59
#637102

 

 

Please do take the Chill pill large. Mathematics and Physics can work out the lowest activation energy solution that produces the largest buy-in for any situation. Wack projections suck up the bottom of the fear barrel and macht nicht.

Login or register to post comments by Assetman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:23
#637056

Thanks for the response.  You answered what was most important.

It’s admittedly taken some time, but it’s finally sinking in.

Whoa.  Just wait until the J6P’s have that “you’ve been royally screwed” moment.   I can envision many folks being both on the the borrower side and a pension holder at the same time.

 

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:27
#637478

Fiction of Law. That which is false is presumed to be true. What is presumed to be true, that the bank gives you a loan and funds it.  Everyone is in on it, the bank the court and now even the forclosed homeowner.  They are all sitting around talking about a loan that never happened.

The goal is uncover that the party accepting the mortgage payments, is nothing but a broker, a loan servicer, who has no lawful claim as the beneficiary of the Deed of  Trust.

 Then with the documentation secured from the Loan Trust, the Mortgage paperwork, and supplemental communication issued by the loan servicer, the targeted Home owner of the non judicial foreclosure sale, may move a question of law in the proper jurisdiction to substantiate the loan servicer has no lawful standing to command a legal foreclosure under the Deed of Trust.

All these cases are acts of a DEBT COLLECTOR hiding in plain sight using by claiming to be an attorney of Law when in fact they ware DEBT COLLECTORS.

There is nether money lent, nor funds borrowed, there is only the deposit of one’s signed documentation into the demand despot transaction account of the state and or federally chartered financial services company’s form driven administrative operation of statutory law.

How may the loan servicer move a proof of claim when the promissory notes sits elsewhere, beyond said servicer’s statutory reach, in a separate legalistic formed entity, statutorily defined as the Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduit without recourse?

OH CRAP!!!!

In virtually none of these cases does the plaintiff that is moving a foreclosing action have STANDING. 

These guys are not stopping because of robo-signing gate, people are already figuring out that none of the jokers have standing, and there is no way for them to gain standing.  Robo-signing Gate is nothing but the smoke screen to the real issue… that there is no standing of the party moving the foreclosure action.

Under your state financial laws t plainly states, a creditor may charge fees as if they may be deemed to be  “interest”.   No loan was made nor funded they are charging you a fee.   The fiction is that this fee is interest that was funded by the bank and gave to the seller of the home. 

THE SO CALLED ATTORNEY AT LAW IS A DEBT COLLECTOR, THE TRUSTEE IS A DEBT COLLECTOR, THE NOMINEE IS A DEBT COLLECTOR AND THE LOAN SERVICER IS A DEBT COLLECTOR.   Oh crap.

http://openjurist.org/443/f3d/373/wilson-v-draper-and-goldberg-pllc

Nor is it relevant that Defendants were attorneys. Generally speaking, all lawyers are fiduciaries for their clients. As discussed above, however, the more important question is whether Defendants’ actions were “incidental” to their fiduciary obligation. We conclude that they are not. Furthermore, it is well-established that lawyers can be “debt collectors” even if conducting litigation. See Heintz v. Jenkins, 514 U.S. 291, 299, 115 S.Ct. 1489, 131 L.Ed.2d 395 (1995) (“[T]he Act applies to attorneys who `regularly’ engage in consumer-debt-collection activity, even when that activity consists of litigation.”). In fact, the Act as originally enacted exempted attorneys from its coverage, but Congress amended the Act in 1986 “to provide that any attorney who collects debts on behalf of a client shall be subject to the provisions of [the] Act.” Pub.L. No. 99-361, 100 Stat. 768 (codified at 15 U.S.C.A. 1692a); see also Carroll v. Wolpoff & Abramson, 961 F.2d 459, 461 (4th Cir. 1992) (discussing repeal of the attorney exemption). If the principal purpose of a lawyer’s work is the collection of debts, he is a “debt collector” under the Act. See Scott v. Jones, 964 F.2d 314, 316-17 (4th Cir.1992).

 

Of course, I have seen people that have figured this out but then go to court and try and ARGUE all kinds of crap.  The goal of the defendant in a foreclosure action is not to prove himself right but to prove the other party WRONG.  

Simple put, the plaintiff in these actions have no standing regardless if there was a loan or not.  More than likely the promissory note is embedded within the REMIC without recourse. It is up to the defendant to stop the plaintiff from using deviant means to secure something that is not legally theirs.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p938.pdf

Once the home owner makes the last payment, the statutory clock on debt starts ticking. 

 

Login or register to post comments by Burnbright
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:42
#636901

What mako is saying assetman is that the lender never gave the borrow consideration. And thus the lender can not claim a loss on the loan, because it didn’t come from a deposit or cash reserves. It came from ledgering the amount into existence based on your signature. Your signature is the credit that is given. It originates essentially from the banking acts that developed during the civil war as a way for Lincoln to pay for the war. Banks were not able to create bank notes prior to the civil war and the bank act allowed money to be created through a signature.

It is why currently all money is based on a signature. Dollar bills, bank notes, credit cards, etc.

Login or register to post comments by Bringin It
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 00:00
#637198

The technique preceeds the Civil War.  Look into how the “capital” was raised to start the BoE.

Login or register to post comments by snowball777
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 00:27
#637348

Some fun historical info about early colonial currency:

http://www.thecurrencycollector.com/pdfs/Maryland_Colonial_and_Continent…

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:34
#635966

He’s talking about fractional reserve banking and the money being created at the loans origination by simply putting it as both an asset and a liability on the banks balance sheet.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:40
#635992

…simply putting it as both an asset and a liability on the banks balance sheet.

What, the banks can’t have their cake and eat it too?

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:46
#636022

CD, I have the answer:

 

http://www.offshorecompany.com/banking/how-to-start-a-bank/your-own.asp

Login or register to post comments by Max Hunter
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:47
#636028

It always amazes me.  You would think people would inherently understand that our money supply has grown since 1913. But yet, nobody questions how that supply grows or who has the power to grow it..

Question Everything! Knowledge is Power!.. and quite disturbing at times.

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:58
#636056

Most people have no idea what even money is, let alone trying to figure out where it comes from.

They think you go to the bank, get approved for a loan, the bank reaches in the vault and has money stashed in there just waiting to be lent out.  Why do or did we all believe that, because that is what our parents thought us. 

If our parents thought us that the Moon was made out of cheese, I am sure we would start a war to defend that notion.

 

Login or register to post comments by Rusty_Shackleford
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:01
#636092

Most people have no idea what even money is

 

Bingo.

Login or register to post comments by jeff montanye
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 02:22
#637429

but more may as the money gets odder.

Login or register to post comments by traderjoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:35
#636227

Mako, thanks for the knowledge. 

I don’t think the idea that banks create money out of thin air will be the rub, per se. 

It’s the implications of this (of course they are related):

1. They charge INTEREST (and origination fees) for the privilege of doing nothing; and 

2. They receive REAL collateral for this nothingness, in the form of a claim on real productive assets, your DOWN PAYMENT, and a claim on your future productivity (especially in recourse states). 

IMHO, your argument becomes much more powerful when you provide the zinger – that in return for doing nothing, the bank receives a claim on real property, interest payments and fees, and your down-payment (which you have actually ‘earned’). Not a very fair trade…

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:47
#636295

It’s the same scheme recycled over and over for 1000s of years.   Humans are so predictable it’s not even funny, Humans love taking a bite of the apple.

Login or register to post comments by tomdub_1024
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:54
#637009

Which is why maybe the religious texts all seem to have a prohibition against usury, and a solution, periodic “jubilee”, to reset the system since the mathematical certainity points to only one end…

Problem is, with the reset, enough of us take the bait again, like fish in a farmed pond…

Yup, trout were created to think corn impaled on a hook is their natural food….

riiiiighht

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 06:35
#637496

Yes, they figured out you can’t escape the Truth.  Well, you can if you perish before the Truth comes in smacks you in the head.

Login or register to post comments by macholatte
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:48
#636801

You are correct, sir!

What the bank is supposed to provide in return for all the fees and the license to fabricate currency from vapor is a fiduciary duty to the customers. The bank is supposed to be a standard of TRUST and a place where people can be treated fairly and honestly by a disinterested third party.

Unfortunately, that is not the case because there is no punishment for a banker (individual who is an officer of the corporation) who breaches his duty. Therefore, there is nothing in trade that benefits the customer other than the illusion of integrity. The banker simply shuffles down the street to set up shop at a new storefront after the old corp went BK and he parachuted out with money created from nothing.

 

Login or register to post comments by tip e. canoe
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:13
#637123

“The bank is supposed to be a standard of TRUST and a place where people can be treated fairly and honestly by a disinterested third party.”

yes theoretically, that should be the case.   but what happens when everyone talks their book?   can a system be designed where the 3rd party is completely disinterested & transparent?

would a open-source model of banking work?

how about an open-source model of investment banking?

see max k’s new project?

http://www.piratemyfilm.com

Login or register to post comments by Cathartes Aura
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:59
#637196

love this.

thanks for the link tip e.!

Login or register to post comments by thermroc
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 00:11
#637339

Oh My God, I have just seen the future.

That is so fucking cool.

Login or register to post comments by PeterB
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 23:15
#637287

“Corporations have neither bodies to be punished nor souls to be damned” 

Login or register to post comments by QQQBall
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:19
#637048

and if they have recourse on the loan, they have claims on a lot more than you detail. 

Login or register to post comments by RunWild
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 02:06
#637420

Wow, think I’m starting to understand…

Login or register to post comments by Rotwang
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:21
#636862

The corporate can only deal with that which they ‘comprehend’. Since they are a virtual from the start, all their dealings are in virtuals, such as ‘real estate’. Real estate is not land.

A man or a woman can comprehend land, and can thus deal with it. Todays transfer documents no longer call out the participants as men/women, nor do they specifically transact in land and the appurtenances. The legal descriptions are flawed, in the manner that they no longer ‘enclose a tract of land’

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:46
#638039

 

 

 

 

 

See comment 470, just for you.

Login or register to post comments by LeBalance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:38
#635987

I luv these posts by Mako:

Debt as Money Series I and II on Youtube.

This is the beginning of the banking holiday.

Once a certain “larger” fraction of folks realise that banks DO NOT supply money it all gets very wacky …. in an instant. as in ZAP!

That ZAP is known as catharsis, or seeing the light, or the epiphany.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:41
#635998

Or the ultimate anal pucker.

Pucker power to the people.

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:53
#636054

Great series.  Even as a cartoon I still have trouble getting others to watch it.  They simply don’t want to know and can’t be bothered.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:05
#636111

Emphasis on “don’t want to know”.

It’s a real problem knowing because once you know, it’s real hard to un-know, ya know? It takes much less energy to not know something to start with than it does to practice unknowing, aka denial.

Who said Americans aren’t energy conscious? :>)

Login or register to post comments by Dr. No
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:07
#636122

Its an uphill battle to “know”….basically creating order from chaos.  Second law of Thermo makes it a tuff slog.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:11
#636132

Says “Dr. No”.

LOL

In a world that recognizes the power of Karma, “Dr. No” could be the only person to reply to my comment.

Ya know? :>)

Login or register to post comments by Voluntary Exchange
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 17:46
#636798

I am not so impressed with that 2nd “law”. Every “piece” of everything needs everything else to be “whole”. Put another way it takes something greater than a universe just to define a single electron. Or some might say, “God” really gets around! Imagine that!. IN other words there is actually no such thing as “closed” system.

Login or register to post comments by pan-the-ist
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:29
#637061

Wake me when they find the anti-entropy particle (or is it a wave?)

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:10
#636130

………..I’m sorry what? The new episode of glee was just delivered to my Hulu account.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:11
#636134

Sadly I know what you mean. :>)

Login or register to post comments by DaveyJones
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:49
#637176

ignorance is pissed

or on a long enough timeline, the bliss rate for everyone drops to zero

Login or register to post comments by Ragnarok
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:12
#636137

International Private Central Banking:
http://freedocumentaries.org/teatro.php?filmID=243&lan=en&size=medium
 
Fractional Reserve Banking:
Money As Debt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanOXoWl0kc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTv1fo6sKmo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qicabStQkc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kpSbkaD4tM&feature=related
 
 
Money As Debt II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doYllBk5No&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp7tiySCyb4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG7Jjb0cw9o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-O_yGEI_0U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MwHgpFSQMo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH1M1QaM6SY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GH4OElpZtM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqeTComdm5A&feature=related

Login or register to post comments by desgust
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:27
#636877

I junked you because you are a SHILL!

HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE VIDS?
They have to be from the CFR!!!

Last one is pleading for DIGITAL MONEY!!!

you must be a fucktard not to see who gave birth to this misscarriage of a vid!

Desinformation, lie an suggestivity!

Login or register to post comments by LeBalance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:02
#637109

Wow!  Please discuss in less than four exclamation points exactly how defining bank loans as promises to pay and fraud qualifies one as a shill?

Me think you are missing the point of general information dissemination.

Is Bill Still’s Money Masters a crock even though Bill’s political viewpoint leaves something to be desired?

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 03:09
#637400

“Bill’s political viewpoint leaves something to be desired?”

That’s putting it mildly! But, as you suggest, he peels away one or two layers of the onion for us … and for that, I thank him.

I guess it’s how the “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” epithet arose: Someone peels away the dry skin, finds an edible “core” in the onion and shouts “eureka! … I’ve discovered an apple”, without yet realising that the core is in fact a whole lot more layers of onion.

Mako has certainly exposed another important layer of the onion for me in the last 24 hours that Bill completely missed (or I missed it, if Bill didn’t). Thanks, Mako!

Login or register to post comments by francismarion
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:47
#638045

 

 

 

 

A comment to you. Number 470. This thread.

Login or register to post comments by benb
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 20:01
#637020
LeBalance “This is the beginning of the banking holiday.”

Are we looking at the OCTOBER SURPRISE?

Login or register to post comments by LeBalance
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 21:06
#637113

BenB: I come to ZH and also to Netdania every day and my jaw drops on most days.  In the medium term this mess is going to heat up to chaos level, but in the short term a distraction is needed for the PM price issue and the mortgage robo-fraud.

The attention of too many is on the banksters.  Be safe.

Login or register to post comments by Marla And Me
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:49
#636043

Thank Dog you showed up for this one Mako!  I was just going to invoke your name after reading traderjoe’s reply above, and then here you are!  These banks will go on, in some form or other, because humans require that credit be created when dealing with each other (do people really want to act like the old-time Chinese did and pay for their homestead in CASH after saving for years in order to buy it?).  If we continue to inject interest into the equation, well then the outcome will be baked into the cake every. single. time.  You simply cannot add compounding interest into a finite system.  Math is really the only religion humans need to get in touch with.

Login or register to post comments by Mako
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:59
#636082

People are waking up but it’s not because they want to but because the Truth is being forced on them.  Humans can’t win against the Truth.  Like you said Math(Truth) is breaking down all the lies we tell ourselves. 

The lie is the same lies as they were a thousand years ago.

Login or register to post comments by NumberNone
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 18:43
#636906

Mako…if it’s been going on since the beginning of civilization, why will it end now?  Jesus tossed the money changer tables in the temple and the moment he was gone they tidied up and had him killed.  

Until you can boil this down into a kernel of information the average person can get outraged over most people could give a damn.  Most will view this as deadbeats gaming the system over a technicality that they themselves won’t benefit from…so “fuck ’em”.  

Where this really has the potential to get ugly is if a national law firm or firm(s) file a class action lawsuit and starts advertising that they can get people out of their house notes on the paperwork technicalities.  Then people will get excited like sharks with blood in the water.  

If they get that Sham-Wow guy to pitch it ….the banks are doomed.   

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 19:20
#636953

Where the hell are those commercials, anyway? 

I keep hearing references to “class actions in every state,” but I have seen no evidence of these.  Wonder if it’s true?  Would be nice to know. 

Login or register to post comments by midtowng
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:25
#635909

So if the big banks all gets sued and have to pay billions of dollars for fraud, doesn’t that mean that the taxpayers will have to bail them out again?

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:36
#635969

No.  The taxpayers were adamantly against TARP I by a 9:1 margin.

If our representatives insist on bending us over again, well, I don’t think they really want to consider the possible consequences.  None of them are good for them. 

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:48
#636033

Ummm, they were “adamantly against Tarp I by a 9:1 margin.”

And what happened? Tarp I was put into place. So why would you think they would care what the taxpayers think this time? Especially after the election.

Login or register to post comments by aheady
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:54
#636057

That’s kind of where I arrived as well.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 13:55
#636062

I think it would get very ugly this time around.  Now it’s in the MSM that the banks are on thin ice due to fraud. 

Would you want to be either a politician or a bankster in that situation?  I wouldn’t. 

They’d better plan on shutting down the internet, for starters. 

 

Login or register to post comments by NotApplicable
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:03
#636100

Official bank nationalization in 3… 2… 1…

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:56
#636345

You got it!  Very good. 

Login or register to post comments by Everyman
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:02
#636099

Because this time P{ATRIOTS will take POLITICIANS out in the streets and BEAT THEM TO DEATH!!!

Peole have had enough of this crap and they will not take another bailout of banksters when their milk, bread, food are all going up 25%.  Check the commidities prices.

People are gpoing to get pissed and want someones head, whether “legally” or not.

Login or register to post comments by NotApplicable
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:04
#636104

Nah, they’ll just demand a bigger handout in order to make things “fair.”

Login or register to post comments by HarryWanger
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:13
#636138

No they won’t. Not if it coincides with the season premiere of Dancing with the Stars or American Idol.

Login or register to post comments by aheady
on Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:20
#636164

Check.

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