Gonzalo Lira On The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy

Tyler Durden's picture Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/09/2010 09:17 -0500

Fannie MaeGonzalo LiraTestimonyTreasury DepartmentWells Fargo

Submitted by Gonzalo Lira

The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy

True story: A retired couple I know, Brian and Ilsa, own a home in the Southwest. It’s a pretty house, right on the manicured golf course of their gated community (they’re crazy about golf).

The only problem is, they bought the house near the top of the market in 2005, and now find themselves underwater.
 
They’ve never missed a mortgage payment—Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple who follow every rule, fill out every form, comply with every norm. In short, they are the backbone of America.
 
Even after the Global Financial Crisis had seriously hurt their retirement nest egg—and therefore their monthly income—and even fully aware that they would probably not live to see their house regain the value it has lost since they bought it, they kept up the mortgage payments. The idea of them strategically defaulting is as absurd as them sprouting wings.
 
When HAMP—the Home Affordable Modification Program—was unveiled, they applied, because they qualified: Every single one of the conditions applied to them, so there was no question that they would be approved—at least in theory.
 

Applying for HAMP was quite a struggle: Go here, go there, talk to this person, that person, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. “It’s like they didn’t want us to qualify,” Ilsa told me, as she recounted their mind-numbing travails.
 
It was a months-long struggle—but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40%. This was equivalent to about 15% of their retirement income. So of course they were happy.
 
However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.
 
Brian and Ilsa were furious—a fury which soon turned to dour depression: They tried contacting Wells Fargo, to straighten this out. Of course, they were given the run-around once again.
 
They kept insisting that they qualified—they qualified! But of course, that didn’t help at all—like a football, they were punted around the inner working of the Mortgage Mess, with no answers and no accountability.
 
Finally, exhausted, Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do.
 
On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with. To top it off, foreclosures have been suspended by the largest of the banks for 90 days—which to Brian and Ilsa meant that people who weren’t paying their mortgages got to live rent free for another quarter, while they were being squeezed out of a stimulus program that had been designed—tailor made—precisely for them.
 
Brian and Ilsa are salt-of-the-earth people: They put four kids through college, they always paid their taxes. The last time Brian broke the law was in 1998: An illegal U-turn on a suburban street.
 
“We’ve done everything right, we’ve always paid on time, and this program is supposed to help us,” said Brian. “We follow the rules—but people who bought homes they couldn’t afford get to squat in those McMansions rent free. It would have been smarter if we’d been crooks.”
 
Now, up to this point, this is just another sob story of the Mortgage Mess—and as sob stories go, up to this point, it’s no big deal.
 
But here’s where the story gets ominous—here’s where the Jaws soundtrack kicks in:
 
Brian and Ilsa—the nice upper-middle-class retired couple, who always follow the rules, and never ever break the law—who don’t even cheat on their golf scores—even when they’re playing alone (“Because if you cheat at golf, you’re only cheating yourself”)—have decided to give their bank the middle finger.
 
They have essentially said, Fuckit.
 
They haven’t defaulted—not yet. They’re paying the lower mortgage rate. That they’re making payments is because of Brian: He is insisting that they pay something—Ilsa is of the opinion that they should forget about paying the mortgage at all.
 
“We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied—and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!”
 
“And charged us a penalty,” Brian chimes in. The non-payment penalty was only $84—but it might as well been $84 million, for all the outrage they feel. “A penalty for non-payment!”
 
Nevertheless, Brian is insisting that they continue paying the mortgage—albeit the lower monthly payment—because he’s still under the atavistic sway of his law-abiding-ness.
 
But Ilsa is quietly, constantly insisting that they stop paying the mortgage altogether: “Everybody else is doing it—so why shouldn’t we?”
 
A terrible sentence, when a law-abiding citizen speaks it: Everybody else is doing it—so why don’t we?
 
I’m like Wayne Gretsky: I don’t concern myself with where the puck has been—I look for where the puck is going to be.
 
Right now, people are having a little hissy-fit over the robo-signing scandal, and the double-booking scandal (where the same mortgage was signed over to two different bonds), and the little fights between junior tranches and senior tranches and the servicer, in the MBS mess.
 
But none of that shit is important.
 
What’s really important is Brian and Ilsa: What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.
 
Just like the poker player who’s been fleeced by all the other players, and gets one mean attitude once he finally wakes up to the con? I’m betting that more and more of the solid American middle-class will begin saying what Brian and Ilsa said: Fuckit.
 
Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?
 
Fuckit.
 
When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy.
 
TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry—the upright citizenry—throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore.
 
If a big enough proportion of the populace—not even a majority, just a largish chunk—decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy.
 
Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists—grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.
 
Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a fuck, it’s over for America—because they are America.
 
 
Update I:
 
The Center for Public Integrity has a story, written by Michael Hudson this past August 6, that shines a light on the issue of perverse incentives of the HAMP program. These perverse incentives came to light because of a whistleblower, a former employee of Fannie Mae, filing a lawsuit. Fannie Mae was so keen on being perceived as a money-maker, after the Federal government bailout, that the aid programs passed by the Congress and signed by the President were turned into profit centers.
 
The former executive, Caroline Herron, recounts:

    “It appeared that Fannie Mae officers were focused on maximizing incentive payments available to Fannie Mae under various federal programs – even if this meant wasting taxpayer money and delaying the implementation of high-priority Treasury programs,” she claims in the lawsuit. 

    Herron alleges that Fannie Mae officials terminated her $200-an-hour consulting work in January because she raised questions about how it was administering the federal government’s push to help homeowners avoid foreclosure, known as the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP.

Herron further alleged that “trial mods” were implemented regardless of eligibility of applicants, so that Fannie Mae would be eligible for Federal government bonuses.
 
Ms. Herron’s testimony in fact proves Ilsa’s suspicion that there was a scam at bottom. As Mr. Hudson writes, “Herron charges that Fannie Mae continued in headlong pursuit of ‘trial mods’ even though it knew that many had little chance of becoming permanent. [. . .] Fannie preferred doing trials, Herron alleges, because it was eligible to receive incentive payments from the Treasury Department.”
 
So in the pursuit of these perverse incentives, people who did not qualify for HAMP were enrolled in the program. And when their “trial mods” were up after 90 days, they would be notified that they didn’t qualify—regardless of whether they in fact did qualify, as in the case of Brian and Ilsa.
 
All so as to be perceived as a profitable operation, worth having been bailed out. All so as to be perceived as “returning America’s money”.
 
As of February, 2010, of the over one million homeowners’ mortgages under HAMP auspices, 83% were “trial mods”. One would assume that those 850,000 homeowners would also be assessed an $84 penalty for non-payment.
 
$84 times over 850,000? You do the math.

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by Dismal Scientist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:26
#637710

What is more disturbing to me is that the growing unease of the populace, makes them more receptive to the arrival on the scene of a ‘strongman’. I suspect the majority, even though mightily pissed off, would rather follow someone promising them justice (unpleasant consequences to follow later), than conduct a passive revolution.

Login or register to post comments by Buckaroo Banzai
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:30
#637715

Some actual justice would be welcome. What I’d be most concerned about is a Peronist-style dose of “economic justice”.

Login or register to post comments by Dismal Scientist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:53
#637743

Agree on the need for justice, but it would need to be meted out by someone who didn’t want to do it. Anyone who volunteers for the job should be avoided like the plague.

Login or register to post comments by Xedus129
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:16
#637779

I’ll do it

Login or register to post comments by Paul E. Math
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:51
#637831

No, let me.  I could totally do it.

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:21
#637873

Excellent post mr. Lira.

You’ve nailed the entire amerikan shitshow with this one…

they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP… their mortgage would go back to the old rate… they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and…they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”. 
  
…Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do. 
  
On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with…

 

 

 

Login or register to post comments by Fish Gone Bad
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:51
#638051

Rule #3 – Plan ahead.  Just saying, “Fuck it!” is not planning ahead.  There is actually a way to make all these money problems go away.  Did you ever wonder why Andrew Jackson was on the $20 bill?  He destroyed the central bank.  Ever wonder why Abraham Lincoln was on the $5 bill?  He too waged war on the banks.

Here is the answer everyone has been looking for.  Change our money, get rid of the banks.  Pay back the banks in their worthless currency.  Try to learn the lessons taught to us from Jackson and Lincoln, BANKS ARE EVIL.

Login or register to post comments by groucho_marxist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:37
#638127

there is a solution, just it isn’t good for any business who wants to be bailed out (hence, not even getting talked about)

jubilee

problem solved.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:32
#638071

The Fuhrer is not pleased:

Login or register to post comments by darkpool2
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:46
#637826

The Pinochet version. Justice in the form of real free markets. ( oh, and if you need names for the `disappear`li-st, I can offer some)

Login or register to post comments by barkster
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:47
#637927

Guillotines in the Capitol Rotunda!!

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:33
#638077

Have people changed so much since 1929–is there no longer any decency?

Jump, bitchez:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yge311sFhC8

Login or register to post comments by Catullus
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:39
#637769

Agreed.  That’s why it’s not enough to just be pissed off.  It’s important to explain to people why they should be pissed.  Understanding the why will help them identify the cranks and snake oil salesmen. 

I think Lira makes the great point: people who are the backbone of society, who are really trying to play be the rules, are starting to say “fuck’em”.  This was the moral hazard that anyone in 2007 and 2008 screamed about when the first bailouts occurred.  It would necessarily degrade to this and it has. 

Login or register to post comments by B9K9
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:19
#637926

Hasn’t anyone here read Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”? The process of setting up and destroying rubes & taking advantage of the clueless is an age old tradition. There are passages in the book that read identical to GL’s portrayal of this couple ie the protagonists trying to do the ‘right thing’ and getting hosed by operators. (In fact, the ‘victims’ stand out in such stark relief to ‘spotters’ that they could have brands on their foreheads.) Sinclair thought he could gin up all sorts of sympathy for the downtrodden, but the book’s true effect was the creation of the FDA so everyone could go back to eating steak with confidence.

Now, let us pull away and view the situation as illustrated in The Jungle from a wider macro perspective. What critical incipient trends were just beginning to take hold at the time of the book’s publication (1906)? Large scale automobile manufacture anyone? And what about all the major oil discoveries yet to be made, both domestically (TX) and overseas? Think radical economic growth had anything to do with papering over these prior class conflicts?

Ok, fast forward to today. I keep trying to tell everyone that only fools & chronic complainers would be wasting their time @ ZH if there was any inkling of potential economic growth. That is, this shit would all be long forgotten if there was some new glorious path to riches. If we don’t come up with something quick, and I believe the event horizon is now long past, then we not only have to deal with the current manifestation of the collapsed bubble as represented by housing/mortgage fraud, but the roll-back of the entire ponzi that began in 1694.

For 316 years there has always been an out by reflating bubbles to cover up the sins of fathers ad infinitum. First, wiping out the inhabitants of continents & re-populating them subject to charters, contracts, loans & investments (all tremendously inflationary). Secondly, leveraging the utilization of vast virgin resources via the slave trade. Then, for the grand finale, the whole enchilada was capped off by the kingpin, fossil fuels (first coal, then oil).

If this is really it, and I’m pretty sure it is, then it doesn’t seem like there are a lot of options other than getting out now. Because, if you don’t think the power-elite also “get it” and have contingency plans well in place, then you’re just gonna be nothing more than a stepping stone on their path to survival.

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:25
#637985

what, you don’t think the latest version of a cell phone is enough to keep the world economy afloat!?

gotta run, have to trade my iphone for a droid …

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:27
#637989

A free copy of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle” for those who wish to read about their own misery, only from the safe distance of 100 years ago.

http://manybooks.net/titles/sinclairuetext94jungl10.html

Login or register to post comments by Landrew
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:11
#638083

Well said, B9K9 “OK, fast forward to today. I keep trying to tell everyone that only fools & chronic complainers would be wasting their time @ ZH if there was any inkling of potential economic growth. That is, this shit would all be long forgotten if there was some new glorious path to riches. ” so true, if I had anything other than near at the money put options on banking sector, I would be here myself. I work in energy research ( which truth be told I would work for free) and now and then could treat equity markets like a physics experiment of mass and momentum, now there is zero volume killing the illusion of free markets. My avatar is a production graph of Cantarell oil field in Mexico showing a 8% yr/yr decline. Some people I think are starting to catch on to the declining production volumes of easy cheap crude oil. There is nothing easy or cheap about mining oil sands, mile deep ocean drilling, shale oil with a floor production profit cost of $80 a barrel. Many ask what would be the motivation for such a take-over, energy, population curve, global pollution or sheer greed? CD, has opened the door and now I want to know who is inside?

Login or register to post comments by hayleecomet
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:21
#638101

Right on, B9K9!  I love the way you write and always seek out your responses!

Login or register to post comments by Pondmaster
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:33
#637901

FWIW – Where I work ( and work hard ) two of the laziest guys there “showed me down” a few months ago . Sneeringly and arrogantly stating ” Those who work hard get screwed by the company , but those that goldbrick and could careless about putting in 40 hrs work for 40 hrs pay get away with it everytime ” . They want me to cave and say “fuck it” as well . To become just like them ,a work ethic makes them look bad. In their own consciouses. My thoughts are once you say “F… it” at work , its all over . “They” have won. But seeing the reality of there statement daily since I was confronted makes it very very difficult to continue . I am getting tired , just the the couple in the article above . This is the new America. Not one I am proud of . I don’t blame the couple for (wife) for wanting to give up and be given over to the wrong attitude . Her husband is the last bastion in the family finances . Right or wrong morally is not the issue . When he gives in to the Fuck it its all over , they lost . America has lost . What we the majority stand for and beleive in in our country is lost . The criminals and cheaters have won . We have become one of them . Sorry for the ramble , but this article really hit home . I pray for more resolve to do the right next thing daily . For all of us         

Login or register to post comments by citizen2084
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:09
#637958

Pond – You are spot on with this comment.  Your personal integrity is priceless and we should should think long and hard prior to giving it away.

ciao,

c2084

 

Login or register to post comments by Reductio ad Absurdum
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:34
#638006

This was the inevitable outcome of pluralistic democracy, since the lazy, immoral, or incompetent will always be in the vast majority. Glad to see more good people waking up to reality.

Login or register to post comments by Dan The Man
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:44
#638034

I think the “Fuckit” attitude is absolutely necessary for revolution.  I’m sorry to have to say this…but a good work ethic and paying your taxes are values that are now just prolonging the agony.  Join the revolt or be run over by it.

Login or register to post comments by Dan The Man
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:46
#638041

I think the “Fuckit” attitude is absolutely necessary for revolution.  I’m sorry to have to say this…but a good work ethic and paying your taxes are values that are now just prolonging the agony.  Join the revolt or be run over by it.  Real change in our financial structure will not happen without the big “FUCKIT”.

Login or register to post comments by Psquared
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:18
#638095

clap, clap, clap … I’d rather become bankrupt and live under a bridge than do the immoral and unethical thing. I don’t care what everyone else is doing.

Once we start doing what is expedient instead of obeying the law, no matter how burdensome it might be, we have lost.

Login or register to post comments by midtowng
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:10
#638080

I totally agree. Americans are more likely to surrender their liberties (what remains of them) in exchange for a military strongman who promises the moon, creates scapegoats, and has no respect for the Constitution. In the end, the strongman will always embrace the wealthy elite, just like the corrupt bastards before him.

Login or register to post comments by Psquared
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:13
#638089

This is beginning to sound Biblical.

Login or register to post comments by DavidC
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:27
#637713

Thanks Tyler and Gonzalo.

For those who missed it or aren’t aware of it, Gonzalo appeared on Max Keiser the other day.

http://maxkeiser.com/watch/the-keiser-report/keiser-report-83-05-october…

DavidC

Login or register to post comments by ISEEIT
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:50
#637739

Only a moron conspiracy theory believing dupe would ever imagine current events thru the lens of Cloward/Piven strategy? I mean come on, that idea is just batshit crazy right?

The far left would surely never aim to topple a society in order to perform a coup that would result in the establishment of a soviet style prison? Right?

I mean the far left just wouldn’t do that, not in America, right?

It’s not actually happening, right?

Login or register to post comments by New_Meat
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:02
#637758

Nope, never happened in New York City, right Mayor Lindsay?

– Ned

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:14
#637770

What’s worse; the far left or the far right? Both blame their problems on the other side, and both are inflexible to compromise, so both sides will pull farther and farther apart. Expect to see Hitler or Marx types crop up in the near future.

Login or register to post comments by Suisse
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:37
#637813

You’re an idiot.

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:48
#637819

  … on second thought

The far right is the most dangerous force in the world today, bar none.

 

Login or register to post comments by Cow
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:16
#637869

yea.  because everyone knows Hitler was far right.  right?  right?  WTF did “Nazi” stand for anyway?

D’oh!

Login or register to post comments by DosZap
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:19
#637875

Your really an idiot.

Have you heard ONE Far Right, any RIGHT individual talking about, belieiving in Euthansia?.

Actually condoning it, the need for it?………..

Well fool, you have a CZAR, a MAJOR player in the current admin who have trumpeted this view forever.

He is ONE, of their main cogs.

The Clyde & Piven mantra, and the Alinskityes are breeding in the Peoples House.

Their policies, and plans are right down this alley………

Although the are fools, and think we are too, and that we are too stupid, illiterate to actually believe that they are serious………

They are dead serious.

Ignore their kind at your peril.

What party is it that has allowed, 50 million babies to be murdered?.Not the RIGHT……….

You fall into the category of the Useful idiot.

Login or register to post comments by granolageek
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:12
#638087

No, the far right prefers to drag people away in the middle of the night.

Login or register to post comments by chunkylover42
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:59
#637947

defend that statement.

Login or register to post comments by Buckaroo Banzai
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:13
#637965

More people in the history of the earth have been killed in the name of Communism, Marxism, and Socialism, than under any other banner or ideology. Lump in the unborn and the number swells even further.

That is a fact, and its not even close. The murderous left wins over the murderous right by a ratio of … what? at least 10 to 1. Maybe even more depending on how you count it.

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:28
#637992

“More people in the history of the earth have been killed in the name of Communism, Marxism, and Socialism, than under any other banner or ideology”

even more than in the name of religion?

it’s hard to separate the church from govt throughout history so maybe your statement is accurate

Login or register to post comments by AnAnonymous
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:27
#638111

Good propaganda. That is more because of one side bodycounting and the others being unable to do the same.

How many killed for capitalism? My guess is that the official body counts are zero.

Hint: sometimes, in order to build credibility, propaganda has to concede a kind of self admission. 

Login or register to post comments by VWbug
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:35
#638125

leonard peikoff wrote an unfortunately prescient book about this called the Ominous Parallels.

Of course left and right are misleading terms.

The concise way to put it is ‘collectivists’ vs ‘individualists’ but a lot of people don’t have a clue what either of those mean.

So the best way i can think of is to say the totalitarian, religous extremist, racists are a much bigger threat in the USA than their near cousins the totalitarian marxists/socialists.

Login or register to post comments by ISEEIT
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:39
#637818

Marx is in office now. The trouble seems to be that his teleprompter isn’t sufficient to establish absolute control. It would seem that the followers haven’t quite the skills of the leader. This Internet thing to is a player not properly recognized and “priced in” when the plan was hatched.

The war rages on.

Login or register to post comments by brodix
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:09
#637858

Get your history straight. Marx couldn’t organize his own family. It’s Lenin you have to worry about. Marx thought that if the lines between personal and private property were eliminated, the rich would take their corrupt monarchies with them and the state would wither away. Lenin filled the vacuum by making everything the state.

Login or register to post comments by DosZap
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:22
#637882

Both were  Satanic bastards, which one murdered more of HIS own people after WWII, than the other?.

Between Marx,Mao, and Polpot, and asst others, over 100 million innocents have been murdered at the hands of their OWN, in just the last 100yrs.( Not even counting Hitler).

Login or register to post comments by ISEEIT
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:35
#637903

“progressive’ explained. Thanks.

Login or register to post comments by Missing_Link
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:50
#637740

Thanks, David!  Good show.  I love Gonzalo’s articles — he’s an incredibly bright and articulate speaker.  A bit of a shame to watch him on the Keiser show; Keiser really doesn’t have the eloquence or dignity for a show like that, but at least Gonzalo makes up for it.

Login or register to post comments by Rusty Shorts
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:36
#638124

You really are Missing_a_Link.

Login or register to post comments by Janice
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:33
#637717

Basterz, Bitchez!

Login or register to post comments by Fearless Rick
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:33
#637718

However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.

Memo to Brian: Listen to your wife. Stop paying. Hire a good lawyer and buy silver and gold and with what would be the mortgage payment. Your money is better invested that way.

Login or register to post comments by Kaiser Sousa
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:53
#637833

Fearless –

precisely…ur prescription is a double fisted way to fuck the bankers who deserve just that…

take away their usory revenues & dump their debt coupon currency  for real money…

The battle cry “fuckit”….

Login or register to post comments by CitizenPete
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:33
#637719

fuckit

Login or register to post comments by DaveyJones
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:40
#637720

A few months back I saw a new case in the system. John and Mary were in their mid fifties. Mary lost her job first and along with it her medical benefits. Then John’s hours got cut. Mary had a serious ongoing medical conditon. John’s job did not have benefits. John got another job at Starbucks. The medical bills started to pile up. John started stealing coffee and was trying to resell it to individual street vendors. Mary started helping in the scheme. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a fifty five year old man cry like a juvenile suspect. Neither had broken a law in their life as well. In the meantime, our local prosecutors just announced that due to budget cuts, they are firing twenty prosecutors (never seen that) and will now have to de-emphasize property crimes. Of course one on the fastest growing areas is identity theft. We are also seeing an increase in domestic violence and theft between child and parent as many are moving back in or staying longer. This is not going to end well  

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:55
#637836

Thanks for that Davey. Wow.

Login or register to post comments by Everyman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:36
#637722

IF this is the way it’s gonna be, then FINE, we did make these “rules” anyway.  The mantra for our next 2 decades:

Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?

Login or register to post comments by Kaiser Sousa
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:02
#637848

i love it…gotta share this…

please title this mantra…i would like to see it everywhere…

until things r set right – Fuck it…

Login or register to post comments by Paul E. Math
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:33
#637893

Please note the similarity in overall tone to Irvine Welsh’s verbalization of the ethos of the heroin addict.  This is moral decay, not in a subtle, creeping, subconscious fashion but purposefull, overt and pragmatically chosen:

“Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life… But why would I want to do a thing like that?”

Fuckit.

Login or register to post comments by Everyman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:37
#637723

This is just FULL of great quotes:

 

They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.

Login or register to post comments by enobittep
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:37
#637724

You bet.  Make no mistake about it.  This is exactly how lunitics like Hitler get into power.

 

Login or register to post comments by Dismal Scientist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:55
#637746

See my comment at top of thread. Couldn’t agree more.

Login or register to post comments by Cistercian
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:35
#637812

And the question that keeps me up at night is this:was it engineered precisely to put a dictatorship into effect?I think the answer has to be yes…it makes so much more sense in explaining events of the last 10 years.

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:33
#637899

“was it engineered precisely to put a dictatorship into effect?”

rest easy Cister….

IT was engineered simply to put money, lots and lots of money, into the pockets of vain and greedy men.

Login or register to post comments by DosZap
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:32
#638000

Well, your # 2 here, that get’s the PLAN.

Login or register to post comments by nevadan
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:02
#637846

DC is full of lunatics now.

Login or register to post comments by Rainman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:44
#637728

Crony capitalism eventually converts its victims to lawlessness and irresponsibility. TARP was the kickoff to a long game. We’re still in the first quarter.

Login or register to post comments by bugs_
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:45
#637732

“60-ish white”  Ooops. They should have known the program wasn’t there for them.  Wells Fargo didn’t tell them the real reason they were slow to approve and they didn’t tell them exactly why they were un-approved 90 days later by some anonymous back-room staffer.  The program wasn’t for them and they should have known not to apply, to keep their mouth shut, and to pay.  The program wasn’t for them.

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:28
#637797

“imagine if you can an unemployed black man sitting on a crumbling porch somewhere in Alabama in his string vest”

Bird and Fortune on the subprime crisis

hilarious video – subprime starts around 3:00

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:34
#637902

“Bird and Fortune”?

Fuckit

Login or register to post comments by Ricky Bobby
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:10
#638081

No junk here, bugs_ is right on.

Login or register to post comments by MrVincent
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:48
#637736

This article tries to make it look like these people “did the right thing”.

Wait a minute! They bought a home at the top of the market and now they try to get taxpayer money to make up for their mistakes!

I hate the banks just like the next guy, but lets not forget the mistakes that the borrower has made.

 

Login or register to post comments by NoVolumeMeltup
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:12
#637772

While many ZH-types plainly saw the writing on the wall regarding real estate, I don’t expect the average American couple to be able to call a top in any given market.

Plus the fact that Greenscam’s low low rates were artificially driving demand and TPTB have been burying price discovery like a cat burying shit takes an amount (but surely not all) of the onus from them in my mind.

Fuckit indeed.

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:43
#637815

it’s not an easy issue – on one side we have financially illiterate people watching American Idle, Flip This House and other reality TV instead of educating themselves about the world they live in – on the other side we have educated people who make a living by screwing over uneducated people – is it a big surprise that the uneducated people got sucked into the biggest real estate bubble planet Earth has ever seen?

two phrases come to mind:

1. “tough love”

2. “there’s no such thing as a free lunch”

edit: and didn’t one of our founding fathers say something about needing an educated population to run a country?

“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves, (A)nd if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”
Thomas Jefferson

isn’t TJ telling us here that the only way we can maintain our society is by becoming educated?

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:20
#637877

I think you’ll find that Churchill had a more practical view of the “safe depository” problem:

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:31
#637997

word

Login or register to post comments by Misstrial
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:32
#637919

Mr. Vincent –

As a Gen Xer and renter, what I see here is an older Boomer couple who were handed every financial, educational, and employment opportunity the world and the USA could offer for decades.

They made the mistake of assuming that the status quo would continue despite endless wars, a truly heinous national deficit through multiple “R” or “D” Administrations/Congresses, offshoring, outsourcing, and the decimation of our manufacturing base in every industry since the mid-1970’s among other problems.

btw, by 2005, bloggers were warning of impending doom in the housing market.

Shiller, Schiff, Ben Jones of the Housing Bubble Blog were openly warning prospective buyers. Same with the Craigslist Housing Forum. Many posters on CL, myself included (a member since 10/2005) were warning prospective buyers and homeowners of the doom on the horizon. We also provided many, many, many links to online articles from all news sources regarding the manipulation of housing market pricing via flipping and “specuvestors”, appraisal corruption, and appalling lending “standards” (term loosely applied here).

Further, by 2005/6, Patrick.net was well-known (and mocked) in real estate circles and Patrick Killelea was warning of an imminent housing collapse. People who took the time to research and think this through had  come to the conclusion that this housing run-up was not sustainable and was simply a “house of cards.”

Apparently this couple, like many others, did not do their research and made an expensive purchase based upon real estate agent “happy talk” and the assumption that the social and financial order (such as the stock & bond markets) will always follow a linear continuum (upwards) as in the past 50 years.

They could have turned around and sold this same property in 2006 or 2007 and still made a profit.

To base their house payments on assumed monthly income from investments was not wise, and anyone reading their story should take instruction on what not to do. The generation previous to theirs, the WW2 Generation, or at least the ones I knew, made certain that they owned their home outright by the time they retired.

Sadly the Boomers did not follow the example of their parents and continued to play the RE game as they reached their retirement years. Unfortunately, they made assumptions based upon past housing and market performance and lost.

Sorry.

~Misstrial

Login or register to post comments by DosZap
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:06
#638075

Misstrial,

You seem to have  assumed much.

First the Average ZH person is far and above the normal American if fiscal/fiduciary/educational background/ ways.

Plus, they have no clue about any of these people, nor their warnings, nor their existence.

Ever had an orgasm?,if yes,have you ever had someone tell you what one feels like?.

Are they remotely the same?.

Hell no.

Same here………

This couple, worked hard,got an education,worked for many years, and saved,and planned,based on the world as THEY knew it.

Since only God knows the future 100%, all we as humans (normal ones), have to go on, is what HAS BEEN, especially when it has BEEN all our lives.

Also, assuming Boomers did not pay off their mortgages is presumptious a wee bit, no?.

I know a lot that did, mines been paid off since I was 45.

Why?, because I decided to live debt free, as far as humanly possible. Like many others we do not give credit to, decided long ago, to not be the tail, but the head.

We all have that choice, just how badly we want it,is the ultimate question.

These folks seem to have laid out really sound plans,except the RULES of the game were changed.

Thieves in high places BROKE the system,that had worked for 50+ years. The rest of responsible Americans who had made a plan, and worked the plan, are getting screwed.

This IMHO, is not their fault.

Had they not fiscally been able to afford their retirement style, I seriously doubt they would have been on a residental Golfing Community,which as some know here are not inexpensive.  

Who KNEW the Bankers, and the Govt’s of the world were going to get caught gaming the system, and ruining the entire worlds financial house?.

Not me. As well as I prepared, it would have been changed, as would my place of residence.

Personally, I think we need another Founders Part Deaux.

Whatever comes, I do not plan on being cannon fodder……..when you kill a venomous snake,you do not cut the tail off, you get the head.

Victim, or Victor, which do you choose?.

Login or register to post comments by Misstrial
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:35
#638105

Hi DosZap:

Although the average ZH readership is well-informed/well-read, and financially informed than the average American, nevertheless, Craigslist *is* for the average American and Patrick.net links to many middle-of-the-road news sources.

There is also YouTube, where “Dolly the Sheep” made her debut and Schiff, Shiller, Roubini were featured in a heavily-viewed presentation of the housing bubble meltdown.

This was back in 2006 and is a clip compilation from various major networks on an impending housing collapse and financial meltdown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

Shiff and Roubini were warning in 2007 via major television media:

I never said or meant to imply that ALL Boomers failed to make certain that their retirement home was fully paid for and not leveraged or heloc’d.

However this couple chose a mortgaged residence despite the drawbacks to taking such a financial risk. I would like to clarify that there are also many Boomers who did make certain that their mortgage was fully paid off by the time they retired.

Perhaps at one time, based on assumptions of market performance, they could afford a golf club community, however they no longer can and so they are facing the probability of having to sell their home for less than they purchased.

Lastly, I think after all of these decades of being at the top of the social ladder, homeowners are having a very rough time accepting a position of less importance and possibly being despised. This is a state-of-affairs that renters have had to deal with for a very long time.

~Misstrial

 

Login or register to post comments by Dburn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:24
#638104

Blaming the victim doesn’t work anymore. Maybe if you go to a bankers site…

 

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:52
#637742

ARCH ENEMY – We Will Rise (OFFICIAL VIDEO)

Oh and…Molon Labe, Bitches.

Login or register to post comments by Sudden Debt
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:54
#637745

Consumer protection is a joke!

Login or register to post comments by Popo
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:58
#637748

The elites shattered the trust in the system at every single turn.  Ratings agencies.  Offshore banking.  Insider political appointees.  Wall Street Fraud.  High Frequency Trading.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

This isn’t so much a defection by the middle class as it is a vote to join the elites.

The only way to restore faith in the system is to start putting elites in jail — fast.

With no exaggeration:  There are literally tens of thousands of Wall Streeters, bankers and executives that have violated serious laws and need to be prosecuted — and likely see jail time.

Until the middle class sees this, its going to be a free for all.   The ball is in the hands of the regulators.  

If they drop the ball, they break America.   And the clock is ticking.  

This shit will get ugly very fast.  As everyone knows, crashes happen quickly.  Once money starts to pull out, it moves with breathtaking, horrifying speed.  And it will.  Soon.  

 

 

 

Login or register to post comments by kaiserhoff
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:17
#637780

Already happening, my friend.

It’s like a collision of galaxies.  For a long time, it looks like a near miss, like nothing much is happening in all of that empty space, but gravity has already done its deadly work.

At least you are aware.  So many are not.  Good luck.

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:36
#637905

nice addendum Popo

Login or register to post comments by kaiserhoff
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:56
#637749

When small town lawyers and CPAs are joining the rebellion, there is no middle.

Login or register to post comments by Coolidge Low
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 09:59
#637752

Man, I feel for these people, but nobody asked them to over extend themselves and purchase a home beyond their means.  Did they not know they were buying an over extended market?  Guess who is now going to get stuck with their mortgage?  That’s right……. Maybe we should publish stories on how the “me” generation of baby boomer lucusts have destroyed the economy and are now crying like whining babies because they have to take responsibility for their actions.  Doesn’t sound like there was fraud.  Doesn’t sound like they unexpectantly lost a job.  Doesn’t sound like they were hit with medical bills.

Golf course community…… I bet they still play a couple of rounds as you and I are figuring out our future tax liability.  Sell the home, move into something more affordable and find new friends.  Take the hit and move on.

P.S.  I bet they are not willing to take a haircut on their social security benefits as future generations will…… yeah, entitled.

 

Login or register to post comments by Cvillian
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:28
#637794

I am the same as these people homey. I bought my first place at a bad time (early 2005) but am responsible, law abiding and continue to pay my mortgage on a condo that is anywhere between 30-40% underwater. Over the past two and half years, anywhere between 40-50% of my condo project has walked away or defaulted on their properties, crushing the local market and making refinance in this lower interest rate environment impossible. I rent my property out as marriage and a new job forced me to leave but I continue to lose money every month on this terd. I will be paying down debt to Chase for a long time (at a higher interest rate I can’t do anything about) and am equally pissed that I can’t pay more principal through a lower mortgage rate.  The banks don’t give a sh-t and are slowly ramming me in the ass. Oh yeah, I can’t sell (other than a short sale) because I don’t have the funds to close and the banks won’t extend me an uncollateralized loan (even though it is already uncollateralized now). What is your answer to that?

Login or register to post comments by Hansel
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:57
#637838

Walk away.  Or quit paying the mortgage and continue renting it out.  There is a good chance the bank doesn’t have standing to foreclose.  The original note was probably destroyed and your loan is probably part of an MBS.  The “rich elite” got that way because they swindled and stole.  Now is your chance to join the “rich elite” because possession is 9/10 of the law.

Login or register to post comments by poorold
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:56
#637839

the answer is…stop paying the mortgage, keep paying the condo fees, don’t pay the taxes, keep the insurance up…and deposit whatever is leftover from the rent into your bank account.

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:42
#637913

I don’t know where to START junking you on this comment…

for junking Coolidge, or for “buying at a bad time”, for continuing to pay your underwater mortgage ( i rent–You NEED to skate on your mortgage so that i can live rent free vicariously thru you) or for getting married, for having your debt with CHASE or for allowing yourself to be “slowly” rammed in the ass……

Login or register to post comments by Cvillian
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:04
#637940

Don’t forget the other 7 people that junked the post, guy.

Your feedback is stellar otherwise. I bet you’re one hell of a Monday morning quarterback in the office. 

 

Login or register to post comments by Cvillian
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:56
#637941

2x

Login or register to post comments by Blankman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:46
#637925

Answer:  Fuckit.  Everyone complains they want to change the way things are done in this country but are afraid of actually trying to make a change.  I see this situation (mortgage mess) as a great way to make a change in this country.  1000 paper cuts is how to kill the beast, not with weapons or outrage.  Everyone wants to change the world, well the mortgage mess is a great way to do it.  You want to see abrupt change, imagine if everyone in the US stopped paying their mortgage.  Sure there will be initial chaos and perhaps a brief time of tyrannical dictatorship but after that perhaps out of the carnage a phoenix will erupt.  Instead of trying to elect leaders to change the way things are done, stand up and be a leader and show your own strength of conviction by realizing you have been lied to all your life.  Try to wake up everyone else.  Everything we see and take to be truth is all lies fed to us to keep us from ever dissenting.  Once you realize there is no constitution any more the eyes will widen.  Why do you think bankers and lawyers rule everything.  The system has been rigged since ~1938 to the lawyers favor.  He who understands the rules make the rules.  Didn’t you ever wonder why you can not represent yourself in court.  It is not for your protection it is for their protection.  Under constitutional law we can represent ourselves.  Under UCC / USC law only a barred lawyer can represent us.     

 

FYI: I walked away from 3 houses in 2008, reset my life, pay for everything in cash and have begun the learning process into the depths of our financial and legal systems.  Walking away is easy, relearning everything you once thought to be true and honest is the hard part.  That is the fear.  That is why most will not do this.  One of my favorite movie quotes (Dune):  

I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain

Login or register to post comments by DosZap
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:26
#638108

Cvillian,

You be as Immoral as the useless fktards that caused your problems,and ruin your character, and your name.

You continue to keep your charater, and your name, until you can no longer DO SO.

When your out of options, then at least you did your best,as far as you could,and can THEN walk with a clean conscience, and a good heart.

Just because someone else robs a store, doesn’t give you the right does it?.

How many folks here, have ever BEEN upside down on anything?.

Did you walk it,or did you tough it out,……….your name meant something, you signed a contract, agreeing to terms.

The more normal folks that walk this shit,the worse it will get, and  the more blood will ultimately be shed.

As Celente says, “When you have lost it all, you lose it.”

 

Login or register to post comments by Eureka Springs
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:36
#637814

Sounds like Wells Fargo played loose and fast with their Hamp game… could be some fraud there, no? It seems to be the tipping point for this couple.

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:57
#637841

Due to spending an extra day making sure I have a bolt hole in an un-named south american country, I was a single day late on a mortgage payment. Once in 10 years. Wells Fargo called and told my wife we were in danger of being foreclosed on, but our Beloved Leader had a program to lower our payments. All we had to do was sign on to a variable rate that the cocksucking thief at Wells did not know the upper rate.

She told them to go fuck themselves, and to pass that suggestion to our Beloved Leader. They were not amused. Can’t think why they’d be pissed at getting payed.

Strange times.

Login or register to post comments by Freebird
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:27
#638110

Welcome Ratty, we know where you are 🙂

Login or register to post comments by Pondmaster
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:48
#637929

Man , you need some prozac !

Login or register to post comments by Dburn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:34
#638122

The first lie in that post was “Man, I feel for these people” as you go on to trash them in the rest of the post. In fact, I’m willing to bet your pretty pleased with their situation. A little payback maybe?  Guess what, that computer your typing your bullshit on was a product of the Me generation. So is most of the stuff you use day in and day out.  Fucking up the economy was cross generational. There was plenty of before and after generations that were there to light this candle and your generation along with the rest were there to fan it into flames.

Don’t hold yourself in high esteem. You have nothing to be proud of , trust me . No one would write like that if they actaully done soemthing with their lives

Login or register to post comments by Dburn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:35
#638123

The first lie in that post was “Man, I feel for these people” as you go on to trash them in the rest of the post. In fact, I’m willing to bet your pretty pleased with their situation. A little payback maybe?  Guess what, that computer your typing your bullshit on was a product of the Me generation. So is most of the stuff you use day in and day out.  Fucking up the economy was cross generational. There was plenty of before and after generations that were there to light this candle and your generation along with the rest were there to fan it into flames.

Don’t hold yourself in high esteem. You have nothing to be proud of , trust me . No one would write like that if they actually done something with their lives

Login or register to post comments by surfsup
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:00
#637754

R.I.C.O. bitchez

Login or register to post comments by RagnarDanneskjold
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:01
#637757

If history is a guide, the strongman will be more on the order of Oliver Cromwell. A man leads the National Rifle Association to victory in a brief civil war, some politicians are shot, Mexico or Canada get invaded and cede some land, and then everything reverts back.

Login or register to post comments by Traveler-2
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:02
#637759

Finally the middle class is catching on to what it created–let the good times roll!!

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:45
#637922

+

Login or register to post comments by Saxxon
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:47
#637924

+1

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:02
#637761

When Law is not applied equally, it is nothing more than a tool for oppression, and it is not immoral to ignore it.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:20
#637787

Simple truth. 

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:10
#637862

HEY COOLIDGE LOW, MR.VINCENT,

READ RODNET’S POST. FUCK THE LAW WHEN IT IS UNEQUALLY ENFORCED. FUCK BEING A MARK IN THE BIGGEST PONZI SCAM KNOWN IN HUMAN HISTORY. WAKE THE FUCK UP.

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:51
#637932

i think coolidge was simply aghast (as i am) at how little people paid attention to the bubble. Housing appreciating 20% per annum???

“HELLLOOOOO…..Reality’s calling… It wants its Real Estate back”

Otherwise, i’m with you.

Yeah, “Fuckit” makes a nice change from the ubiquitous “Bitches” and it has a nice “The Deer Hunter” flava

 

Login or register to post comments by ConfederateH
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:40
#638024

When Law is not applied equally, it is nothing more than a tool for oppression, and it is not immoral to ignore it.

 

Yeah, doesn’t progressive taxation suck?

Login or register to post comments by Eureka Springs
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:06
#637763

Time to move into a place where someone wont be threatening to evict you… or living under the looming knowledge the threat can come any day and, btw, bulldoze that house down to the ground! Otherwise these people are far from having a spine… and are willing to negotiate with mafioso/yakuza terrorists, while paying them.

 

Login or register to post comments by williambanzai7
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:19
#637766

Is there such thing as a golfer who does not cheat on his or her score if no one is looking?

Gonzalo, please send this to your friends. 

MT

Login or register to post comments by Gonzalo Lira
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:51
#637832

I sent it to them—very amusing. 

 

GL

Login or register to post comments by Thunder Dome
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:12
#637771

These people are doormats.  

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:14
#637775

Of course, it would just be a wild conspiracy theory if I said that the coming chaos was planned, not down to the small details because that wouldn’t be necessary, but planned none the less in order to re-engineer social order since the financial system was doomed to failure anyway when it was implemented way back when.

Of course, this is just a silly conspiracy theory, right? Just another wacko on the web spouting crazy ideas with no proof. Right? I mean it’s clear that all this “stuff” is happening because of a few independently motivated people helping themselves to the cookie jar, not something deeper or more insidious.

Right?

Login or register to post comments by Landrew
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:19
#637786

What would be the first step in proving such theory?

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:59
#637844

Without being snarky in the least, why would it need to be “proved”?

Let’s look at your question from a different point of view. Let’s say I had irrefutable “proof” of this conspiracy. What would I do with that proof? How would I widely publish this proof? What “proof” could I use to prove my “proof” if those I prove are involved in a conspiracy deny they are part of a conspiracy?

Who do you think the public would believe, me and my “proof” or those who are in power and can cause the people the most harm mentally, physically and psychically? Would you really want to know that you father was molesting your sister? Would your mother really want to know this? So why would the average Joe want to see “proof” that their protector (the powers that be) was really trying to harm them?

Who do you think the public will choose to believe when they are faced with the idea that their government (or at least those in power who have control over most of the government) isn’t trying to protect them but rather rape them? Don’t you think that most people will conduct a quick calculation and decide they would rather stay with the devil they know rather than purposely and deliberately invite into their homes the devil they don’t know, aka social chaos?

Let’s say I somehow widely publish “proof” of this conspiracy. Is the assumption then that “we the people” will rise up and revolt? That some “authority” will remove those in power from the halls of power? What “authority” would that be? Wouldn’t a conspiracy of this magnitude involve many different people in many different areas of influence world wide and not just in the USA?

Would the average Joe immediately march in the streets and demand those responsible step down? What if by exposing those in power, they decide the best course to follow is to start to screw with the economy and government even more so and in such a way as to cause chaos or disrupt communications? What’s that you say, this only happens in banana republics? Would you like chocolate sauce with that banana republic you currently live within?

My point is that we accept coordinated “conspiracy” all the time when it is done by the “government” or some other “authority”. And “we the people” want these conspiracies because they afford us at a minimum the illusion of comfort and control. People know somewhere in their hearts that they were lied to about 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan and the Ponzi and so on. Yet they do nothing. Nothing. Nothing. 

So when presented with “proof” that they are being royally screwed and their standard of living is being reduced down to third world territory over the next 10-20 years, will people take a chance of losing it all now by revolting, by putting themselves in harms way now or will they barter with the devil and hope they can somehow keep some of what they currently have without taking any chances?

When people look within for courage, the vast majority come up empty. The vast majority. Have you ever wondered why hundreds of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, Russians and other minorities in Germany and it’s surrounding territories allowed themselves to be abused for years, leading up to their extermination? And yet the vast majority of them did nothing, nothing at all, to slow the process down, let alone stop it?

Answer that question and we will know if “proof” is what’s really needed here. 

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:27
#637888

CD, have you noticed a change in your beliefs since ZH came online? The daily onslaught of negative news is bound to have a cumulative effect. Personally, my visits here have been like a moth to flame, I just can’t stop, and I’m not even a finance guy. I have tried to keep in mind that old advice, ‘you become what you think about’, thus I try not to dwell on all of the scary stuff happening in the world.

I just can’t imagine this meltdown was ‘planned’, but even if it was, it is out of my control. I have one square foot I’m responsible for, that’s all I can do.

Best of luck going forward

 

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:43
#637915

I was thinking this way well before I started visiting ZH. But I do get your point. Which is why most of my time is spent thinking of the spiritual realm. I make sure I don’t always dwell in the sewer.

I just can’t imagine this meltdown was ‘planned’…

With the utmost respect and with no harm or insult intended, may I suggest that your defense is not based in reality, but within the safety a lack of imagination provides. The idea is so abhorrent to you that it’s simply unimaginable. And even if it was, your defense to that idea is to narrow your boundaries even further, to the square foot you currently occupy.

To understand the sociopath’s mind doesn’t require that we act like one or become one, just that we understand and accept that not only is it possible but that it is an everyday occurrence. By finally accepting this reality, if done so by the general population, it will all end very quickly. The sociopath doesn’t take power, we give the sociopath his or her power so we aren’t forced to deal with him/her.

It is the ultimate hostage situation. We give up our power in exchange for the illusion of safety from the power the sociopath will wield. In affect, we are telling the sociopaths “Here, have my power. And in return, leave me alone and go kill some brown or black skinned person in the Middle East or South America or Africa.”

Login or register to post comments by Blankman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:58
#637943

Pertaining to your thoughts, for the beginner I typically recommend the movie “V” as reading is quickly becoming passe.  IF they comprehend “V” I recommend this site and a short read of “The Creature From Jekyll Island”.  If they can make it through TCFJI and not have the typical this is all conspiracy nonsense thoughts.  They are on their way.      

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:22
#637979

damn dude, I think you read alot more into my words than was there.

“based on reality” And who’s reality would that be, yours? Are you absolutely certain that your perspective is the correct one?

I rarely argue, because frankly, I don’t give a fuck. You probably care more about “being right” than I do. The ego, and the mind, are both tricksters, I try to stay out of their webs of deceit as much as possible.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:34
#637999

My apologies if I mistook you. And I was careful to declare that I am not fighting with you.

But it is you who used the term “I just can’t imagine”, not me. Using the word “imagine” is not by accident since it’s definition is widely known and understood.

Login or register to post comments by Wynn
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:14
#638091

I enjoy these types of conversations, but there is little point in dragging it on, especially at this type of venue. But, I’ll add this:

No aplology is necessary, as no offense was taken. Conversation is imperfect, as words are often ambiguous, and thougts can become lost in translation. And, at my end, a lack of formal language training often leaves me at a disadvantage. I would be well advised to say nothing at all, but my fingers can be hard to stop at times.

Be well

 

Login or register to post comments by Saxxon
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:48
#637930

Yes; but need to avoid hyperbole.  “When you can keep your head while all about you . . . are losing theirs and blaming it on you . . . “

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:44
#638037

If by Rudyard Kipling

I love Kipling. He was inspired by God. Whatever good God you worship.

If you disagree, fuck you.

 

Login or register to post comments by Ricky Bobby
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:25
#638107

Hey Wynn, One square foot was all the space some poor souls had on the cattle car to TREBLINKA. I hope at the time they were having “postive” thoughts.

Login or register to post comments by Landrew
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:43
#638032

Phew! Hold the debt for a moment. I was not suggesting your idea is not an accurate description of what has happened. I was in agreement , asking only as a topic of conformation what would be the leading argument in your hypothesis. Not to many years ago I would have thought any such topic a waste of time and completely illogical. Now, I have been searching for similar conformations of the 1% working as a group rather than self-interest. With a few of the ex-Obummer insiders having left and leaking the insider workings and private statements of this current administration we may get the proof of this conspiracy. For example, it has been said now that Obummer made a statement at a private fund raiser dinner suggesting health care single payer was a none starter even before inauguration in conflict with his hope and change public statements. What would be your smoking gun on this conspiracy along with which groups of people would be the most effective at it’s success? Geo. Bush was elected twice, that should tell you something ha!

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:14
#638084

Actually I didn’t think you were disagreeing with me. What I was trying to show is the need for “proof” in any form is the endless cycle that keeps so many people chasing their tails. It makes any possibility for resistance a non-starter because we’re endlessly seeking proof before we really really REALLY get serious and resist.

I have a tendency to leave broad ideas below some one’s comment. Often I’m simply using that person’s comment as a spring board and I’m not really talking to that person, but to the entire ZH community. My apologies if that isn’t clear. I’ve been here so long that I sometimes assume people know my style and method of madness. :>)  

What would be your smoking gun on this conspiracy along with which groups of people would be the most effective at it’s success?

That’s a real easy question to answer. 9/11 was the smoking gun of all smoking guns. Uncovering that stinking mess will help point us to the groups of people you’re looking for. This is precisely why heaven and earth are being moved to keep that cesspool of an inside job buried in hell.

Login or register to post comments by Catullus
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:32
#637807

I’ll object to this theory. 

If the “planners” of this magnificent scheme really have that much control, then why risk the current social order of potentially not being in control?  What would they have to gain by doing that?

If 1% of the population controls 60% of the wealth (or whatever number it is), then why would that 1% risk it? To get the additional 40%? That seems a little silly.

I’ll go with the they’re fucking it up, they know the current system is unsustainable, but they’re rolling the dice one more time to keep it going.  What other solution is there? Just keep pressing hard 8s and 6s and hope you don’t crap out. The alternative is for the top 1% to relinquish control. Might has well let the inevitability of the situation become apparent to people. And there’s no doubt a level of positioning taking place right now, but no one has some deep insight into the future especially when we’re talking about human behavior.

In short, planning the chaos is both illogical and non-solvent. 

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:06
#637853

Seen through the eyes of the sociopath, my theory makes perfect sense. Something doesn’t need to make sense or be logical or have a clearly defined end point in order for it to be implemented. Power and control is an end in and of itself and doesn’t need any logic to sustain it.

The sociopath, when facing loss of power, will always choose to be the head of a twisted smoking wreckage before they will accept loss of power. King, no matter of what, is still better than not being king. And to 99.9% of the people of this world, this sounds so crazy, illogical and outrageous as to be summarily dismissed.

Sadly, it is our failure of imagination that consistenly leaves us defensless in the hands of the sociopath. 

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:09
#637856

“better to reign in hell than serve in heaven”

Quit projecting your decency onto others. It may not fit.

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:16
#637871

Okay, busted. You are not a wolf, you’re really riot dog from Greece, posting as a wolf. AwooAwooAwoooooooo! 

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:53
#637934

I’ve always been nuts. I run TOWARD the sound of the guns.

The Legendary Athens Greece Riot Dog

The only difference between the wolf and the wolfhound is that one preys on the herd, and one does not. Seems small, but it isn’t. It is everything, in fact.

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:15
#637968

Me too, I’ve actually done it a few times before my brain could stop me. I’m lucky they all worked out okay.

My husband and I use the Sheep, Wolves, and Sheep Dogs frame. And yes, the difference is not small. ZH is breeding and practice grounds for Sheep Dogs/Wolfhounds.  I love your forceful and consistent message. I salute you!

Login or register to post comments by Dismal Scientist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:32
#637998

Is this why they call banksters ‘Fat Cats’ ?

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:08
#638078

Naww.

Cat just eat your soul while you sleep.

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:25
#637938

Nah, CD … you’re fuckin crazy! It was just caused by some well-meaning Harvard, Princeton and Yale PhD’s who mostly got it right but did make a tiny mistake or two here and there. No biggie.

How could they possibly have known that a $200-400 billion dollar a year deficit — every year for 30 years and recently increasing to over $1,000 billion a year under Bush and Obama — would require any sort of change in policy other than increasing the spending to pay for more wars and more social benefits? Did you expect them to be prescient or something?

Anyway, they couldn’t possibly be planning to pull the system down and impose martial law over a country of debt slaves … because they are too busy building FEMA camps, installing cameras and microphones on every lampost, arming the police and national guard with x-ray vans, riot control equipment and “don’t chat, just taser” instructions, plus building up a 1-million-strong surveilance infrastructure, to catch a couple of evil terrorists who may be planning on sneaking in from the hills of central asia! How could they possibly manage both activities at once? … there are only so many hours in a day!

And as for all that nonsense about sterile genetically modified food crops that are resistant to aluminium from chemtrails and are only good for one harvest, while heritage crops are dying from chemtrail sprays and GOM polution, thereby creating the potential hazard of no food at all for man or beast if anything goes wrong with Monsanto’s seed deliveries one year, is just that … abject nonsense! Couldn’t possibly happen. No hedge fund would ever go long on that one coming about!

Better get yer tin foil hat ready. Just sayin’.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:39
#638022

LOL

Everyone get the hell out of the way. The i-dog is i-rolling. :>)

Login or register to post comments by Freebird
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:33
#638118

Is this the Chumba reincarnated?

Login or register to post comments by Freebird
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:35
#638119

Is this the Chumba reincarnated?

Well is it….

Login or register to post comments by UGrev
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:34
#638117

Conspiracy, controlled down to minutiae, always fails because it’s too easy to connect the dots. I agree with your light hearted post, however sarcastic it may be. 

It’s so much more devious to conspire to cause chaos, plant the seed and let chaos grow on its own. It’s also much harder to trace back to the source or sources. 

In that case, it comes down to school rules. Everyone in the classroom gets punished if no one fesses up.

In 1932, they jumped. In 2011, they’ll need wings. 

Login or register to post comments by Heroic Couplet
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:15
#637776

If they voted for George W Bush, they have nothing to complain about. Take complaints to the Republicans in your state. Demand to know where the Bush tax cuts have created jobs.

All people living in houses underwater should be declared employees of the banks and custodians of the property they’re living in. Let the banks pay them salaries to care for the property. The more the property cost, the more the banks have to pay for custodial services.

Let the custodians have a hand in correcting all the faulty paperwork, say, ten per year, because ten per year is way more than the banks have managed in the past decade. When the banks go bankrupt and collapse, then the custodians of the property collect unemployment indefinitely. The more bankers and FIRE employees  who end up on food stamps, the better. They’re much easier to maintain that way.

 

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:26
#637793

Tax cuts are to blame for the massive generational theft by the Ivy League?

Really?

Login or register to post comments by Heroic Couplet
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:49
#637829

Yep. My solution has at least two advantages: takes banks, the FIRE economy, and homeowners upside down on their mortgages out of the government space, which no Republican could ever object to. Solves the unemployment problem. If a house “cost” $400K originally and the banks have to pay 10% custodial fees, $40K per year to the custodians is nice pocket change. We’ll see the banks suddenly decide the real value of the house is only, say $90. I’ve said all along the value of your house is the wholesale cost of the plywood and nails in India and China, and nothing more. Globalization.

Login or register to post comments by Ricky Bobby
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:33
#638116

What is with all the fucked schemes. We have a model that works and hasn’t been tried in 100 years. Its called a Free Market.

Login or register to post comments by AnonymousMonetarist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:15
#637777

Repost  December 14,2009

American Schemer: Synarchy for all

http://anonymousmonetarist.blogspot.com/2009/12/american-schemer-synarch…

‘Without the slightest artificiality of face, without the faintest counterfeit of voice,and without more than a slight exaggeration of natural manner, he could become the typical American schemer’.
– Famous American Actors of To-day (1896)

‘Populism espouses government by the people as a whole (that is to say, the masses). This is in contrast to elitism, aristocracy, synarchy or plutocracy, each of which is an ideology that espouse government by a small, privileged group above the masses.’
-Wikipedia

‘The story that democracy is not to last for ever is as true, and as little to the point, as the assertion that human reason is not to last for ever, since only democracy provides an institutional framework that permits reform without violence, and so the use of reason in political matters.’
-Karl R. Popper

The butterfly wings of the banks, too bankrupt to go broke, need imaginary pricing for their imaginary collateral -tis too humptied to get dumptied.

The state, too captured to go real, pressures the squints to ‘Less Nessman’ the bad speculative bets.

The bets, whilst still on the books, are an option … the regulatory put socializing the downside, the upside beholden only to imagination.

Such an imagining is the MSR(mortgage servicing rights) bucketshop, where there is no active trading and hence the value in the bucket depends largely on the expected life of the mortgage.

Extend and pretend is the proposed means to mend. Pay no attention to the marks behind the curtain. What ever the banks want to show they show.

The Nancy Capitalists proclaim its’ all good, and we all should support that which brings recovery home.

But a storm is being created.

What they fail to realize is that they are corrupting, not supporting the American Dream; through their desire to be prophets they have ceased to be makers of their own fate.

The American Dream is becoming the American Scheme as moral hazard is writ large.

With Mr. & Mrs. America feeling no compunction to walk away from their home if their neighbor does it, with the neverending Federales policy of exalting drunks and punishing the sober, with the phrase ‘the whole thing’s a Ponzi’ being uttered by even the most ardent of conservatives at family functions – life is imitating the arts of the elites.

People are losing faith.

Lies have consequences.

Trust can be gained once and lost once. Once lost, it’s lost forever.

The American Dream of working hard, making it, and making a better life for your children is being replaced by synarchy for all

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:14
#637866

What they fail to realize is that they are corrupting, not supporting the American Dream; through their desire to be prophets they have ceased to be makers of their own fate.

So nice to have you back AM.

I’d be willing to bet large sums of my precious metals that there has never been a group in power who, while driving their country/Empire into the bowels of hell, didn’t delude themselves into believing they were doing “good” for those very same soon to be hell dwellers.

Of course, it doesn’t hurt that their actions are also going to help them make it to heaven….or at least a bought and paid for beach in some South American banana republic, should things get out of hand.

You know, contingencies. Just in case……well…..you know.

Login or register to post comments by Shameful
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:16
#637778

We need a little anarchy, the state is killing us.  Everyone who is paying attention would know the rules only apply to us serfs.  The open criminality of our “leaders” should prove that.  We have a tax cheat as the head tax man for Christ’s sake!  As this goes on it’s going to be us or the State, only one group is going to make it into any kind of good future.  Anarchy could and indeed should lead to more liberty, read Rothbard.  It’s not about chaos it’s about choice and not having some bureaucrat standing on your neck.

Login or register to post comments by kaiserhoff
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:22
#637789

Well said.  Ask the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto whether it’s better to fight early, or when it’s already too late.

Login or register to post comments by williambanzai7
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:27
#637792

It’s gonna be very hard to ask them.

But it appears the banks are adopting storm trooper foreclosure tactics.

Login or register to post comments by His Dudeness
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:41
#637911

“It’s gonna be very hard to ask them.”

Even harder to understand their response.

Some questions just don’t need to be asked. Like the time I’m at our local Walgreens at 1:00am on a Sunday night because our dog just returned from a romp around the neighborhood where she was smart enough to encounter the neighborhood skunk. (And you ‘tomato juice bath’ remedy thinking pukes out there… shut up and keep reading!) We had luckily came across this recipe on the ‘net: 1 quart hydrogen peroxide, 1/4 cup dish soap, 2 TBsp baking soda … combine these and lather up the dog. Additionally, they recommended a mild femine douche (I got 2) for if that mix got into the dog’s eyes. So add a pair of rubber dishwashing gloves to protect my hands, and you now know what I had just plunked onto that Walgreen’s counter…. And the clerk asked: “Will there be anything else?”

The guy obviously didn’t know that when I throw a party… I throw a party right!!!

BTW, the mix worked like a charm!! The dog was in the house 35 minutes after her encounter without a trace of skunk smell! And my cherry for never having used a douche was broken! Priceless…

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:44
#638031

And my cherry for never having used a douche was broken! Priceless…

Thus the reason I’ll never own a dog. I don’t ever wish to use a douche. 

Unless (or course) it’s to clean up after Bernanke and Company are done with my rear end. :>)

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:23
#637881

Well said.  Ask the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto whether it’s better to fight early, or when it’s already too late.

When courage is lacking, one can always find the courage to conclude it’s never too late. When finally proven otherwise, usually one doesn’t stew long in one’s cowardice for the end often comes relatively quickly. After reading many books on the WW2 Nazi (as well as Russian) concentration camps, the most popular attitude to take was for each and every person to believe that they will somehow survive.

Thus it was only when they were eventually marched off to the ovens or the firing squads were they finally forced to face their own cowardice. Even then, the ever accommodating Nazi’s still helpfully enabled their denial by planting flowers and playing music for those who were walking those last few hundreds yards.

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:55
#637837

“We have a tax cheat as the head tax man”

along with an overweight surgeon general and a president who smokes ciggarettes when off camera

Login or register to post comments by jesus_quintana
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:07
#637854

Barry O smokes? I didn’t realise that there was something I could actually like about him.

Every day’s a school day.

Login or register to post comments by Fred Hayek
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:11
#638082

It would be admirable if he did it and just said, “Fuckit” and let you see.  Instead he hides it while his wife, the Patrick Ewing lookalike, goes around scolding america about whatever occurs to her at the moment.

Login or register to post comments by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:48
#638048

“We have a tax cheat as the head tax man”

I just went through an IRS audit. When it came time for them to hand down their written decision, I noticed that they had tacked on penalties and interest.

So (of course) I asked them, in writing, if I could please get the “Timmy” treatment of waved penalty and interest. That didn’t go over very well. Interestingly the “No” response was accompanied by an amended decision that tacked on even more charges. Oh well, time to pay some attorney fees.

No sense of humor in the IRS. :>)

Login or register to post comments by mcarthur
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:17
#637782

No offense intended, but why does a couple in their 60’s have a mortgage in the first place?

Login or register to post comments by Kali
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:26
#637986

why was this junked?  It’s a valid question.  Used to be, banks wouldn’t give you a mortgage if you were past a certain age.  Used to be, when you retired, if you owned a home, you sold it and downsized, paying cash for your “last resting place”, if you didn’t go to live with other relatives.

Login or register to post comments by Fred Hayek
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:12
#638088

What?!  Are you crazy? 

Accept a degree of modesty?

Act like an adult? 

They were just being good american “consumers”.  God, I hate that word.

Login or register to post comments by jesus_quintana
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:18
#637784

Have been wondering for a while now why people threatened with foreclosure haven’t gotten themselves organised… Something along the lines of a web site letting people know when and where a foreclosure is due to happen in any given town or city. Have a few hundred people waiting at every property, every time the fraudulent bastards turn up to kick people onto the street and change the locks. Non-violent but obstructive enough to stop it happening. Make it viral and the banks would soon back off and the sleazy bankster-shill politicians would HAVE to sit up and take notice of what people are telling them.

Login or register to post comments by Mercury
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:26
#637788

Sorry Brian and Ilsa, maybe you haven’t been paying attention. You see Barack Obama is now president and…well…it’s a long story but the bottom line is, you’re the kind of folks from whom wealth will be transferred from, not to.

Please make a note of it.

If it’s any consolation the Administration would like to assure you that the current financial crisis is not being wasted.

Login or register to post comments by JohnKing
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:43
#637822

Yes…the real problem was stated early on in the article:

Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple

Had they been born with more diverse characteristics they would have the full benefit of public/political outrage, however these are the targets of re-distribution, they are getting their just due.

Dig into the racial characteristics of successful HAMP mods and I’m sure you’ll discover how “diversity” plays out.

Login or register to post comments by Everyman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:26
#637885

60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple

Well here’s your problem.

Login or register to post comments by Miss Expectations
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:06
#637952

Maybe, just maybe, those gated communities are just debt prisons with golf.

Login or register to post comments by Fred Hayek
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:14
#638090

Very good!

+18

 

Login or register to post comments by Eureka Springs
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:53
#637835

This D vs R myopia is incredibly stupid. The problems are systemic and have roots going back decades. To address this as one party against another when both are killing this country/rule of law is only helping perpetuate it or an attempt to make things worse.

There are no good guys (or certainly less than a handful) in the two party monied system! Criminal are still in charge of both major parties.

Login or register to post comments by ConfederateH
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:47
#638043

Spoken like a true democrat.  When are you guys going to admit that you are the ones who elected a communist whose sole purpose in life is to destroy the “bourgoisie”.

Login or register to post comments by alexwest
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:28
#637795

finally suckers woken up…:)))))))

seems ass is abit sore.. and vaseline is not help at all anymore..

#uck the goverment…

good times will gonna roll pretty soon

alx

Login or register to post comments by theworldisnotenough
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:29
#637799

I guess I can count Brian and Ilsa as Marco Rubio voters

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:29
#637800

Great work, Gonzalo. 

Login or register to post comments by Dehrow
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:29
#637801

Yeah, bank of america sux dix. Viva la Revolucion!

Login or register to post comments by MsCreant
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:25
#637884

bank of america sux dix

This post is so puerile I’m LMAO. What does that say about where our minds are at? LMAO!!! 

Login or register to post comments by A Nanny Moose
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:30
#637804

Right out of Francisco’s money speech. “….when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice–you may know that your society is doomed.” – 

Are we really that busy that we no longer have time to Go Galt, or is the prevailing wisdom that only force, or violence could make a difference, but would do little against our advanced military/para-military police force? Have we forgotten he lessons of the MLK’s and Gandhis? Perhaps it is time that people are reminded of just how effective a critical mass of cars parked on an expressway, or 100s of thousands individuals clogging the capitals across the nation, can be?

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:34
#637810

Very good question and suggestions.  In this environment, however, somebody’s going to incur the wrath of Homeland Security for their peaceful actions. 

Perhaps some of the people who will otherwise go much more unpleasantly nuclear will see such alternative options first.

Login or register to post comments by Kali
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:28
#637993

They already are, at least for war protesters.  You are considered a terrorist now, if you don’t toe the line.

Login or register to post comments by Everyman
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:47
#637824

Dude GIVE IT A REST with your kumbaya mentality.  What you do not get is that this level of money and power will not be given up “willingly” or for the “greater good”.  YOU may have the morals which are good and just, however those IN POWER DO NOT and they will not quibble or concern themselves if the millions of kids have to skip a meal, because of the economic calamity TPTB have wrought.

There are going to be MILLIONS of “collateral damage cases” with kids and food, spousal abuse, crime increase, cat and dogs sleeping together, alcholism and chemical abuse as the pressures of economic loss mount.

Remember that the UE bene’s are GONE at 99 weeks.  There are a lot that will now have to take that job that makes them feel “less of a person” in their eye.  And why do we have this?

GREED!  Unbridled.  We are not talking an investor making money here, we are talking “ill gotten gains”, from fraud and outright theft.

VIOLENCE is the ONLY THING TPTB WILL UNDERSTAND!!!!  ANd it is THE ONLY THING THEY FEAR.  As the author wrote.

“They are average, …and they number in the millions.”

It will not take anytimne for TPTB to realize that they are no longer welcome and will be hunted down like the dogs of society they are.

There is not only contempt for these assholes (TPTB), but there is OUTRIGHT HATRED> I LOATHE THES PRICKS.

 

I salute those that gave them the midle finger and said “fuck ’em”!

Login or register to post comments by bronzie
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:03
#637850

psychopaths rule the world

I saw an interesting study on psychopaths – iirc, the study concluded that 6% of humans have their brains wired in a manner which prevents them from feeling ANY empathy for their fellow human beings – there is another 12% of the population that learns to be psychopathic because of their environment (they learn to suppress their empathy) – the study also pointed out that it is precisely this 18% of the population that is drawn to positions of power

Login or register to post comments by Bananamerican
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:13
#637963

you can debate where the evolutionary advantage lies…but

, what takes 10,000 men to build can be destroyed by one.

Destruction is a “cheating” power much easier to achieve and wield than creation. The Devil cheats. And the devils of our great amerikan oligarchy… CHEAT!

Login or register to post comments by kaiserhoff
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:41
#638027

Sadly true, and becoming more so, the “arsonists edge”.

Kissinger said many moons ago that when terrorism becomes cheaper, you will get more of it.

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:31
#637896

Yeah, the hatred is coming through loud and clear, everyman.  I can’t blame you for that.  Alot of people feel the same way, myself included. 

And it’s good to know that should it reach the point where a need for violence is undeniable, there are people who have been preparing. 

But I gotta say that if you’re trying to rouse it on an internet board–particularly in a high-profile “radical” location like ZH–you must be starting to really lose it.

I said starting, my friend. 

If your intention is to genuinely foment violent revolution, you sure as hell shouldn’t be doing it here at ZH.  I mean, think about it.  You should be busying yourself offline to accomplish that goal.  Continuing here would only serve to prove, and I’m sorry to say it, that you’re nuts. 

Or, alternatively, that you’re striving to bring very ugly heat on this community. 

I don’t know the answer, just sayin’ . 

I feel your pain and your anger.  But you need to start really thinking about others. 

Login or register to post comments by Bob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:44
#637916

Login or register to post comments by jplotinus
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:35
#637811

The article contains what I consider to be an unacceptable propaganda overlay, starting right at the beginning with the words “true story.”  It gets worse, if that is possible from a propaganda perspective, with the following additional propaganda triggers:

“…follow every rule…”
“…backbone of America…”
“…salt-of-the-earth…”

Those examples were set in a context of adherence to paying an underwater mortgage and angst about the “absurd” possibility of a strategic default.

That is propaganda.

Its intent fits quite nicely into a subtext that attaches stigma to strategic default under the barely disguised rubric of homeowners “trying to get something for nothing.”  Clearly, the article does not attach the favorable, Apple-pie, Mom, etc., descriptors like ‘backbone of America’ to those who strategically default.  Rather, it provides that propaganda cover to those who do not strategically default.

Look, the fraud committed by the TBTF banks and their Wall Street allies is a huge crime that not only permits, but also mandates strategic default.  The entire housing asset of the entire population of America has been undercut by fraud.

Furthermore, allowing people to obtain “easy money” by signing notes secured by their ownership of their homes is no different from dealing crack cocaine.  Easy money is just as addictive as crack is, any day of the week.  The law comes down hard on the crack dealer and sends the buyer off to rehab.

So it must ultimately be with foreclosuregate.  The law must come down hard on the dealers; i.e., the banks and the mere buyers must be sent to rehab; meaning, they keep their homes and pay little or nothing. 

And, they get to keep their homes without being stigmatized or compared unfavorably to those who are reluctant to engage in strategic default.

In the preceding sentence lies the real issue that the propaganda piece glossed over, hid and otherwise tried to skirt.

Login or register to post comments by Double down
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:58
#637944

Must be American, a well argued opinion must be propganda.  Spare me ‘insights”

Login or register to post comments by AnAnonymous
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:34
#638121

When propaganda is what people want to hear and read, it is no longer propaganda.

Still funny to watch/ read the holier than you people and there is a lot on here.

Login or register to post comments by pragmatic hobo
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:41
#637820

Justice, or at least a sense justice, is required to maintain a civilization. After what is biggest con of the century, the bankers have walked free and flounting their victory. Just look at Blankfein paying $35M cash for central park condo. Just look at Cassano drawing millions in salary after he fucked up biggest insurer. The elites are forgetting that without the slaves thay can’t be masters.

Login or register to post comments by His Dudeness
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:43
#637823

Does anyone see a parallel between the demise of Great Britain as THE world power and the U.S.?

G.B. would give us the invention of the Tabloids (the page 6 girl!), and has been entertaining it’s citizenry with other media stimilu to give them something to do and take their collective attention away from the ‘big picture’; and now the U.S. ‘entertains’ itself with tabloids, reality tv, twitter, facebook, cable, ipods/ipads, espn, fantasy sports leagues, talk radio, etc.????

Even without corruption in every area of every institution, and bubble after bubble, with all this crap about us we’d still be a sorry excuse for being fully human.

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:15
#637868

All nations die.

The average age of a democracy, in history, has been right around 200 years.

Login or register to post comments by i-dog
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:11
#638086

Depends what you call “democracy”. This one has lasted well under 100 years since all people (women, blacks, naturalised immigrants) had the vote. In ancient Greece, only landowners were “citizens” and could vote.

Login or register to post comments by Wyndtunnel
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:29
#637892

I remember thinking how pathetic were the Japanese “reality” games shows that humiliate people.  This was back in the 90s at the beginning of their first lost decade.  We also owe the Idol-type t.v. contests to the British.

Login or register to post comments by Dismal Scientist
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 12:10
#637962

You ‘owe’ them to Simon Cowell, not the Brits in general. The sad part is that the Brits like this rubbish. You can add Endemol (Dutch company) to the list while you’re at it, for creating ‘Big Brother’. A format which has been exported the world over. Now gone after 10 years and a few iterations in the UK, thank God. People are the same everywhere, they would rather live vicariously while wrapping themsleves in a blanket of denial.

Login or register to post comments by UnRealized Reality
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:45
#637825

Fuck the Banks. I was also thinking of doing this. I even called Wells Fargo only to hear more lies. I only have 8 more years on my Mortgage and over 80% of equity. But the point is everybody has no way of fighting back. The only messege they will hear is getting fucked out of Billions when people stop paying their mortgage. I don’t care why people bought houses, if it wasn’t housing the banks would of found another way of fucking us all. As the the old saying goes “Money talks, Shit walks”.

 

Login or register to post comments by t0mmyBerg
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:48
#637827

This is a very important post.  The backbone of a culture is its set of cultural expectations.  Crony capitalism, unequal application of laws and foolish propagation of moral hazard does erode this set of expectations and thus confidence and can lead to cultural collapse.  Whether you are one who dislikes the current system and hence yearn for its destruction or one who will mourn its passing, the trend is toward the dissipation of the set of cultural expectations that underpin our society. From the upper left to the lower right on the chart as they say. 

 

Login or register to post comments by Fred Hayek
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 13:20
#638099

Very true.  I think this dovetails nicely with Thomas Sowell’s thesis, in various of his books, that some cultures *are* better than others and that cultural value is just as important to the economic health of a nation as its material resources.

Login or register to post comments by poorold
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:54
#637834

.

 

Login or register to post comments by Robslob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:56
#637840

Planned decades of control:

Late 90’s – Get everyone into the stockmarket = FAIL

2004 – Get everyone into housing = FAIL

2010 Get everyone into bonds = ?

2011 Get everyone into PM’s = ?

2012 Starve the masses

They are pulling one out of the old playbook – mises.org/books/inflationinfrance.pdf 

 

Login or register to post comments by the rookie cynic
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 10:58
#637843

The new normal for the middle class is a lower standard of living. The powers that be don’t seem rattled at this point.  People are pissed, but they don’t get it. Meanwhile, homeland security, CIA and military are positioning to quell any dissent.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/a-hidden-…

Login or register to post comments by Robslob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:01
#637845

It was the opinion which all true statesmen

have held, before his time and since,—in his own country,

in England, in America, in every modern civilized nation.

In his letter to Cerutti, written in January, 1789, hardly

six months before, he had spoken of paper money as “A

nursery of tyranny, corruption and delusion; a veritable

debauch of authority in delirium.” In one of his early

speeches in the National Assembly he had called such money,

when Anson covertly suggested its issue, “a loan to an armed

robber,” and said of it: “that infamous word, paper money,

ought to be banished from our language.”

Login or register to post comments by Robslob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:09
#637859

EVEN worse than this was the breaking down of the

morals of the country at large, resulting from the sudden

building up of ostentatious wealth in a few large cities,

and from the gambling, speculative spirit spreading from

these to the small towns and rural districts. From this was

developed an even more disgraceful result,—the decay of

a true sense of national good faith. The patriotism which

the fear of the absolute monarchy, the machinations of the

court party, the menaces of the army and the threats of all

monarchical Europe had been unable to shake was gradually

disintegrated by this same speculative, stock-jobbing

habit fostered by the superabundant currency. At the outset,

in the discussions preliminary to the first issue of paper

money, Mirabeau and others who had favored it had insisted

that patriotism as well as an enlightened self-interest,

would lead the people to keep up the value of paper money.

The very opposite of this was now revealed, for there appeared,

as another outgrowth of this disease, what has always

been seen under similar circumstances. It is a result of

previous, and a cause of future evils. This outgrowth was a

vast debtor class in the nation, directly interested in the

depreciation of the currency in which they were to pay their

debts. The nucleus of this class was formed by those who

had purchased the church lands from the government. Only

small payments down had been required and the remainder

was to be paid in deferred installments: an indebtedness of

a multitude of people had thus been created to the amount

of hundreds of millions. This body of debtors soon saw, of

course, that their interest was to depreciate the currency in

which their debts were to be paid; and these were speedily

joined by a far more influential class;—by that class whose

speculative tendencies had been stimulated by the abundance of paper money, and who had gone largely into debt,

looking for a rise in nominal values. Soon demagogues of

the viler sort in the political clubs began to pander to it;

a little later important persons in this debtor class were to

be found intriguing in the Assembly—first in its seats and

later in more conspicuous places of public trust. Before long,

the debtor class became a powerful body extending through

all ranks of society. From the stock-gambler who sat in the

Assembly to the small land speculator in the rural districts;

from the sleek inventor of canards on the Paris Exchange

to the lying stock-jobber in the market town, all pressed

vigorously for new issues of paper; all were apparently able

to demonstrate to the people that in new issues of paper lay

the only chance for national prosperity.

This great debtor class, relying on the multitude who

could be approached by superficial arguments, soon gained

control. Strange as it might seem to those who have not

watched the same causes at work at a previous period in

France and at various times in other countries, while every

issue of paper money really made matters worse, a superstition

gained ground among the people at large that, if

only enough paper money were issued and were more cunningly

handled the poor would be made rich. Henceforth

all opposition was futile. In December, 1791, a report was

made in the Legislative Assembly in favor of yet another

great issue of three hundred millions more of paper money.

In regard to this report Cambon said that more money was

needed but asked, “Will you, in a moment when stock-jobbing

is carried on with such fury, give it new power by

adding so much more to the circulation?” But such high considerations

were now little regarded. Dorisy declared, “There

is not enough money yet in circulation; if there were more

the sales of national lands would be more rapid.” And the

official report of his speech states that these words were applauded.

 

Login or register to post comments by Robslob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:20
#637876

To reach the climax of ferocity, the Convention

decreed, in May, 1794, that the death penalty should

be inflicted on any person convicted of “having asked, before

a bargain was concluded, in what money payment was

to be made.” Nor was this all. The great finance minister,

Cambon, soon saw that the worst enemies of his policy were

gold and silver. Therefore it was that, under his lead, the

Convention closed the Exchange and finally, on November

13, 1793, under terrifying penalties, suppressed all commerce

in the precious metals. About a year later came the

abolition of the Maximum itself.*

It is easily seen that these Maximum laws were perfectly

logical. Whenever any nation intrusts to its legislators the

issue of a currency not based on the idea of redemption in

standard coin recognized in the commerce of civilized nations,

it intrusts to them the power to raise or depress the

value of every article in the possession of every citizen.

Louis XIV had claimed that all property in France was his

own, and that what private persons held was as much his

as if it were in his coffers. But even this assumption is exceeded

by the confiscating power exercised in a country,

where, instead of leaving values to be measured by a standard

common to the whole world, they are left to be depressed

or raised at the whim, caprice or interest of a body

of legislators. When this power is given, the power of fixing

prices is inevitably included in it.

Login or register to post comments by Robslob
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:21
#637879

The End:

But this history would be incomplete without a brief

sequel, showing how that great genius profited by all his

experience. When Napoleon Bonaparte took the consulship the condition

of fiscal affairs was appalling. The government was

bankrupt; an immense debt was unpaid. The further collection

of taxes seemed impossible; the assessments were in

hopeless confusion. War was going on in the East, on the

Rhine, and in Italy, and civil war, in La Vendee. All the

armies had long been unpaid, and the largest loan that could

for the moment be effected was for a sum hardly meeting

the expenses of the government for a single day. At the

first cabinet council Bonaparte was asked what he intended

to do. He replied, “I will pay cash or pay nothing.”

Login or register to post comments by Idiot Savant
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:02
#637847

Wow, I really have to question the intelligence of this couple, specifically the husband.

“If you’re gonna talk, talk. If you’re gonna shoot, shoot.” The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

You don’t half-ass default. You either do or you don’t. They’re throwing good money after bad by making partial payments. Not very wise indeed!

That being said, I have no problems with strategic defaults. I would do it in a heartbeat if I was under water and the numbers weren’t in my best interest. In fact, some studies show that strategic defaulters usually have higher FICO scores, implying a better financial acumen.

This couple needs to fish or cut bait. They’ve made the dumbest possible decision by making partial payments. They’re ruining their credit and throwing money away.

Login or register to post comments by Rodent Freikorps
on Sat, 10/09/2010 – 11:26
#637887

Amen.

There is no “try” there is only “do, or do not.” 🙂

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